View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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    87 70.16%
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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #941
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    So what? The main reason Bush decided to invade Iraq was over WMD. That could have been avoided had Bush simply let the U.N. inspectors in Iraq finish their job. Who could have known at the time that Bush was lying when he said that war was a last resort when it was really what he wanted? Had he let the inspectors finish their job, we would have learned the same thing we learned the hard way -- that the WMD Bush warned us about weren't there. Only it would have saved us from a 9 year long war which cost us some 35,000 American casualties. At least a trillion dollars, probaby way more. And the moral price of at least 100,000 Iraqi deaths.
    False. The decision to invade preceded the WMD intelligence; it did not follow it. WMD was merely the lowest common denominator to build a coalition.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    I am shocked that you use your employers time in that way.
    Not that I am obligated to explain myself to you, but because of the nature of my job, work is slow sometimes, so I pop in and out of here and post when that is the case. Also, I get paid by production and not by the hour, so when I'm not working, I'm not getting paid. Now don't you feel foolish for making assumptions about something and someone you don't know anything about?

  3. #943
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    False. The decision to invade preceded the WMD intelligence; it did not follow it. WMD was merely the lowest common denominator to build a coalition.
    What's cool about the death and destruction the war has caused? The WMD argument was used to build support in Congress for the Iraq resolution. The Bush administration successfully deceived the American people and Congress, and that's despicable.


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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    [QUOTE=Sheik Yerbuti;1061630194][COLOR=#0000FF
    ]Ummm, why are you posting quotes by Democrats in response to me pointing out that it's a lie that Hussein didn't let the inspectors back into Iraq??[/COLOR]
    You said that's a lie Bush told; if Bush lied, so did others.

    [COLOR=#0000FF]At any rate, of the quotes you offer, they were either made before Desert Fox, When Clinton and Blair bombed the **** out of Hussein's WMD facilities; or they were made by those who did not have the same intelligence report that Bush had. Only one of the people you quoted from post-Desert Fox was on the Senate Intelligence Committee and had access to the same NIE that Bush had.
    Don't even tell me they didn't know what was going OR what Bush was planning.

    And none of them matter. Again, only Bush had the ability to deploy troops into Iraq. Something he decided to do because he didn't want to lose the ability to invade Iraq because the U.N. inspectors in Iraq (despite your BS to the contrary) would have determined there were none of the WMD that Bush was scaring America with.
    Thanks to the yea vote on the Iraq war resolution. You can't just blame ONE person or ONE party. That's the only point I want to make.

    Democrats Share the Blame for Tragedy of Iraq War

    On this and other web sites - as well as in many scores of policy reports, newspaper articles, academic journals and other sources - the tragic consequences of a US invasion of Iraq and a refutation of falsehoods being put forward by the Bush administration to justify it were made available to every member of the House and Senate (see, for example, my cover story in The Nation magazine The Case Against a War with Iraq). The 2003 vote authorizing the invasion was not like the vote on the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin resolution on the use of force against North Vietnam, for which Congress had no time for hearings or debate and for which most of those supporting it (mistakenly) thought they were simply authorizing limited short-term retaliatory strikes in response to a specific series of alleged incidents. By contrast, in regard to the resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq, Congress had many months to investigate and debate the administration's claims that Iraq was a threat as well as the likely implications of a US invasion. Members of Congress also fully recognized that the resolution authorized a full-scale invasion of a sovereign nation and a subsequent military occupation of an indefinite period.

  5. #945
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    What's cool about the death and destruction the war has caused? The WMD argument was used to build support in Congress for the Iraq resolution. The Bush administration successfully deceived the American people and Congress, and that's despicable.
    Well, no. The fact that their decision preceded the intelligence does not mean that they did not believe the intelligence. The GWB administration was guilty of poor judgment, just like most administrations, sooner or later. The heat in your post is generated by your hate, not their deceit (because there was none).
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    What's cool about the death and destruction the war has caused? The WMD argument was used to build support in Congress for the Iraq resolution. The Bush administration successfully deceived the American people and Congress, and that's despicable.
    Why don't politicians do their jobs and investigate and read things? Kind of reminds me of the health care bill. "We have to pass it before we can see what's in it."

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Those Congressmen that voted against AOF in Iraq:

    "In the end, 156 members of Congress from 36 states had enough information and personal insight and wisdom to make the correct decision for our national and the world community."

    "* Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
    * Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
    * Barbara Boxer (D-California)
    * Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
    * Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)
    * Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
    * Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
    * Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
    * Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
    * Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
    * Bob Graham (D-Florida)
    * Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
    * Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
    * Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
    * Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
    * Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
    * Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
    * Patty Murray (D-Washington)
    * Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
    * Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
    * Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
    * The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
    * Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

    Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
    Tom Allen (D-Maine)
    Joe Baca (D-California)
    Brian Baird (D-Washington)
    John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
    Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
    Gresham Barrett (R-South Carolina)
    Xavier Becerra (D-California)
    Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
    David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
    Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
    Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
    Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
    Lois Capps (D-California)
    Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
    Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
    Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
    William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
    Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
    James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
    Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
    John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
    Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
    William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
    Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
    Susan Davis (D-California)
    Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
    Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
    Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
    Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
    Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
    John Dingell (D-Michigan)
    Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
    Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
    John Duncan, Jr. (R-Tennessee)
    Anna Eshoo (D-California)
    Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
    Sam Farr (D-California)
    Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
    Bob Filner (D-California)
    Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
    Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
    Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
    Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
    Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
    Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
    Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
    Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
    Mike Honda (D-California)
    Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
    John Hostettler (R-Indiana)
    Amo Houghton (R-New York, retired from office)
    Jay Inslee (D-Washington)"

    Iraq War Vote in 2002: Honoring the 23 Senate and 133 House Members Who Voted NO
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-30-13 at 05:05 PM.
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  8. #948
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Well, no. The fact that their decision preceded the intelligence does not mean that they did not believe the intelligence.
    There was a point, in 2002 I think, when Bush said he hadn't decided to invade. And I really couldn't care less what they thought unless of course there was public discussion about the pros and cons of invading Iraq. But there wasn't, beginning with VP Cheney's Aug 26, 2002 speech to the VFW in Nashville, TN there was the constant drumbeat toward war.

    The GWB administration was guilty of poor judgment, just like most administrations, sooner or later.
    Boy is that an understatement.
    The heat in your post is generated by your hate, not their deceit (because there was none).
    Don't give me that tired old phrase, "You just hate Bush" crap, I supported Bush's decision to go into Afghanistan. You bet there was deceit, they exaggerated the threat Iraq posed and Joe Wilson called them on it with his NYT op-ed.


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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    There was a point, in 2002 I think, when Bush said he hadn't decided to invade. And I really couldn't care less what they thought unless of course there was public discussion about the pros and cons of invading Iraq. But there wasn't, beginning with VP Cheney's Aug 26, 2002 speech to the VFW in Nashville, TN there was the constant drumbeat toward war.


    Boy is that an understatement.


    Don't give me that tired old phrase, "You just hate Bush" crap, I supported Bush's decision to go into Afghanistan. You bet there was deceit, they exaggerated the threat Iraq posed and Joe Wilson called them on it with his NYT op-ed.
    Sigh. I'm not going down the Joe Wilson rathole again. Wilson neither learned nor published anything that contradicted a single word of GWB's SOTU "sixteen words." Moreover, as a high profile overt investigator asking direct questions, Wilson was not in a position to provide evidence one way or another about any alleged covert procurement attempt. His entire performance in this affair was that of a self-promoting wannabe, his nose pressed against the glass, desperately seeking high office in a future Dem administration. Sadly for him, he already had a reputation as one of the oiliest, least trustworthy men in Washington, dating from his earlier service on the National Security Council staff.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #950
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Why don't politicians do their jobs and investigate and read things? Kind of reminds me of the health care bill. "We have to pass it before we can see what's in it."
    Your problem is that you don't understand Ms. Pelosi's statement. in reality, she was saying that the admendments from the Republicans were coming so fast that it was impossible to know what was in the HC bill until it passed in the House.

    Did you know that the NIE (National Intelligence Estimate) was published just a few days before the vote on the Iraq resolution? There was no time to read the ****ing thing.


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