View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #721
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Which is even more proof they were not the motive for our invasion and occupation.
    There was evidence of terrorist training camps in Iraq. Iraq was a terrorist's haven.

    Positive test for terror toxins in Iraq - World news | NBC News

    TERRORISTS TEMPTED BY TOXINS
    MSNBC.com’s samples of ricin and botulinum, two deadly biological agents, were taken from the soles of a boot and a shoe recovered from the Sargat camp. The facility has been flattened by several Tomahawk cruise missiles, fired as part of the U.S. campaign against Ansar al-Islam.

    The thick rubber boot twice tested positive for ricin, a toxin derived from castor beans. Ingesting a pinch of ricin, which causes shock and respiratory failure, can kill a human being within 72 hours. There is no cure.

    A black running shoe, shredded by the U.S. bombing, tested positive for botulinum. U.S. officials say terrorists have a particular interest in botulinum and ricin toxins, which may be delivered through release in food and water. Botulism, the illness resulting from botulinum ingestion, is a muscle-paralyzing disease that can cause a person to stop breathing and die, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What exactly are you claiming now? Saddam stopped killing because he was running for his life!
    No. Before we invaded in 2003, no such killing. Not in 2002 either. There was no such killing.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #723
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    All that shows is that Cheney had a ****ty plan. Without a US military occupation as McCain wanted, there was no way to get the Iraqis to abide by the new oil law we helped draw up. Still they have an interest now in Iraq oil they didn't have before, and they have an interest in the Kurdish oil wells they didn't have before. None of which could have happened without our invasion and occupation.
    There is no evidence, before, during or after the Iraq invasion that control of or access to Iraqi oil was a war aim. Protection of Saudi and Kuwaiti fields was an aim of the first Gulf war. The invasion of Iraq, if anything, was conducted contrary to U.S. economic interests. Your ideology blinds you to the obvious.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. Before we invaded in 2003, no such killing. Not in 2002 either. There was no such killing.
    You don't know that.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You don't know that.
    Not sure I need to. But there is no evidence of it happening. As I said, I even heard Iraqis say it wasn't happening before we invaded. Groups like the one I linked were very busy trying to chronicle all they could, and they had nothing. So, the evidence is fairly strong it wasn't.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #726
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There is no evidence, before, during or after the Iraq invasion that control of or access to Iraqi oil was a war aim. Protection of Saudi and Kuwaiti fields was an aim of the first Gulf war. The invasion of Iraq, if anything, was conducted contrary to U.S. economic interests. Your ideology blinds you to the obvious.
    I've already documented the plan before the war recommended in Cheney's Task Force Report, Strategic Energy Challenges for the 21st Century.

    And the new Iraq oil law that we helped draw up was a key benchmark for the new Iraq government:

    "The oil law was drafted in 2006, after the first post-Saddam permanent government was formed. Then the Bush administration pushed it especially hard through 2007.

    The law had three purposes. The first was to create a framework in which multinationals would have a primary role in developing Iraq’s oil industry, and to determine exactly the extent of that role, what rights they would have, and the extent of their powers. The second element was to clarify how that would work in an emerging federal system in Iraq. To put it simply: With whom would they sign contracts? Was it with the central government in Baghdad, or was it with regional governments—in particular, the only one that exists so far, the Kurdistan regional government?

    The third element of the law was to essentially disempower parliament in relation to decisions around oil. . . .
    Since 1967 Iraq has had a law in place, No. 97, which said if the government were to sign contracts to develop oil fields and run them, the parliament would have to sign a specific piece of legislation to approve them. [In other words,] the parliament would have to say, “We support and agree with this contract and we give it validity in law.” That was still in force in 2003, and indeed in 2006. The government could legally sign contacts with foreign companies. But if it did so, it would have to get the OK from parliament for them to have any force. Therefore, the most important role of the oil law of 2006/2007 was not [so much] to allow contracts to be signed by multinationals, as that was already possible. It was to allow them [i.e., the contracts] to be signed without parliament having any oversight.

    Incidentally, the importance of parliamentary oversight is that oil accounts for over ninety-five percent of government revenue. So it is quite reasonable for parliament to have some say in how that works.

    So this was the oil law. The United States, Britain, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and other financial institutions wanted to see it passed as soon as possible once the permanent post-Saddam government was formed in May 2006. As soon as that happened, the United States and the Britain started to say, “your priority is going to be to pass the oil law.” I have documents from that period which make this very clear. They moved very quickly to draft an oil law in August 2006, and it basically delivered those three asks of it. Getting this law passed in parliament became the major political priority of the United States."

    The Unfinished Story of Iraq's Oil Law: An Interview with Greg Muttitt
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    There was evidence of terrorist training camps in Iraq. Iraq was a terrorist's haven.

    Positive test for terror toxins in Iraq - World news | NBC News

    TERRORISTS TEMPTED BY TOXINS
    MSNBC.com’s samples of ricin and botulinum, two deadly biological agents, were taken from the soles of a boot and a shoe recovered from the Sargat camp. The facility has been flattened by several Tomahawk cruise missiles, fired as part of the U.S. campaign against Ansar al-Islam.

    The thick rubber boot twice tested positive for ricin, a toxin derived from castor beans. Ingesting a pinch of ricin, which causes shock and respiratory failure, can kill a human being within 72 hours. There is no cure.

    A black running shoe, shredded by the U.S. bombing, tested positive for botulinum. U.S. officials say terrorists have a particular interest in botulinum and ricin toxins, which may be delivered through release in food and water. Botulism, the illness resulting from botulinum ingestion, is a muscle-paralyzing disease that can cause a person to stop breathing and die, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control.


    Both the CIA and the Pentagon have determined there was neither WMD, nor a Saddam/al Qaeda link.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's not the point. The point is some people seem to think he had "stopped killing." Well, that is just ridiculous IMO. He was obviously an insane madman, killing men, women, children and even babies pretty much indiscriminately. People lived in FEAR of this guy. The Iraqi people knew about the mass graves but were too afraid to speak of them because they knew better.
    and yet the incidence of violent deaths among civilians was higher after madass insane was deposed.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  9. #729
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I am sick of this wounded warrior bull**** where are injured vets have to beg for money to take care of their injuries...They should not have to beg for the money. They should get all he money they need to cover any injuries they have from the war.
    If the nation wasn't so prone to sending its citizens off to get killed and injured invading foreign countries, they wouldn't be in that position.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Think about the impact of dictatorship on the environement and consider the reasoning I provided above. This is not rocket science.
    I would like you to define democracy, because from where I am sitting, democracy doesn't look like its that good for ecology.

    it COULD be, but not without education, and awareness.

    that is not rocket science.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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