View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #651
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Again, the draft is used when personnel needs are not being met. There is no issue with meeting enlistment quotas today...
    Like I previously said, they took National Guard units for Iraq and Afghanistan. And then rotated them several times because they didn't have enough.


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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    LOLS!

    Read your own posts on this thread?
    Exactly, in posts like that, the hypocrisy is so evident, there's no need to even comment.
    Last edited by Catawba; 03-25-13 at 10:07 PM.
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The result would be that the draftees would still have the option of a career path if they chose to follow it. Your response was a straw man, as I didn't say that there would be no professional military.

    Now, in WWII, there was a draft. The nation was on a war footing, nearly every American supported the war, sacrificed for the war, did what they could to win the war. The result was that the war was won in about three years. In Vietnam, there was a draft. Only a few supported the war, found the war really necessary, sacrificed for the war. As a result, the war dragged on for a total of 21 years, and we lost.

    In the current wars, only the military has sacrificed anything for the wars, the average American has taken no part at all in the wars, and they have dragged on now for a decade.

    The point of all that is that we should never go to war unless the entire nation is behind it, willing to sacrifice for it, willing to go and fight, and to do whatever it takes to win it.

    WWII was necessary, but neither Vietnam, nor Iraq, nor Afganistan were.

    This is where I agree completely with libertarians! Well said Dittohead not!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #654
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Again the point was not understood. As long as there are more individuals wanting to join than is necessary to meet the military's personnel requirements, if the draft was brought back and some arbitrary number of our armed forces was to be drawn from that pool, there would be some who had hoped to enlist that might not be able to do so. As far as I am aware, this country has only used the draft when its personnel needs were not being met through enlistment which is why all males are still required to register with the Selective Service...
    Currently the military's personnel needs are only being met by forcing enlistees to continue their duty past their expected end of service.

    Personally, I don't support a draft, but I can appreciate the argument that an all-volunteer force allows the public to forget that we are putting people in harm's way unnecessarily.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    From post 130.

    In our view, as a threshold matter, humanitarian intervention that occurs without the consent of the relevant government can be justified only in the face of ongoing or imminent genocide, or comparable mass slaughter or loss of life.

    (snip)

    Brutal as Saddam Hussein's reign had been, the scope of the Iraqi government's killing in March 2003 was not of the exceptional and dire magnitude that would justify humanitarian intervention. We have no illusions about Saddam Hussein's vicious inhumanity. Having devoted extensive time and effort to documenting his atrocities, we estimate that in the last twenty-five years of Ba`th Party rule the Iraqi government murdered or "disappeared" some quarter of a million Iraqis, if not more. In addition, one must consider such abuses as Iraq's use of chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers. However, by the time of the March 2003 invasion, Saddam Hussein's killing had ebbed.

    (snip)
    Humanitarianism, even understood broadly as concern for the welfare of the Iraqi people, was at best a subsidiary motive for the invasion of Iraq.

    (snip)

    Conclusion

    In sum, the invasion of Iraq failed to meet the test for a humanitarian intervention. Most important, the killing in Iraq at the time was not of the exceptional nature that would justify such intervention. In addition, intervention was not the last reasonable option to stop Iraqi atrocities. Intervention was not motivated primarily by humanitarian concerns.

    War in Iraq: Not a Humanitarian Intervention | Human Rights Watch
    So? WTH is this? It doesn't prove anything at all.

  6. #656
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    So? WTH is this? It doesn't prove anything at all.
    They are one of the groups that watched his killing. Called for action when it was going on. And noted why they wouldn't support our action. Like I said, we stopped nothing. And by merely adding thousands, tens of thousands of extra deaths, and millions displaced, there is no humanitarian element to our action. We simply added injury to injury.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They are one of the groups that watched his killing. Called for action when it was going on. And noted why they wouldn't support our action. Like I said, we stopped nothing. And by merely adding thousands, tens of thousands of extra deaths, and millions displaced, there is no humanitarian element to our action. We simply added injury to injury.
    No one is saying the war was right. I remember wondering why we were going to Iraq when I first heard about it, but it is in the past now, and bitching about it accomplishes absolutely nothing and is more than likely more harmful than anything.

    I'm sorry, but your link proves nothing. People were "watching the killing." Oh okay. Lol.

  8. #658
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No one is saying the war was right. I remember wondering why we were going to Iraq when I first heard about it, but it is in the past now, and bitching about it accomplishes absolutely nothing and is more than likely more harmful than anything.

    I'm sorry, but your link proves nothing. People were "watching the killing." Oh okay. Lol.
    There is nothing harmful about learning from our mistakes. Some still see it as humanitarian. It wasn't. Some still believe he was a treat that required this action. He wasn't. Some still believe we weren't deceived, but we were. If we do not learn, it will be repeated (and maybe next time with a democrat in office).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There is nothing harmful about learning from our mistakes. Some still see it as humanitarian. It wasn't. Some still believe he was a treat that required this action. He wasn't. Some still believe we weren't deceived, but we were. If we do not learn, it will be repeated (and maybe next time with a democrat in office).
    I think most people have learned. The point is that you aren't helping the Iraqi people by complaining about it. It's done. It's over, and the Iraqi people have to get their country together. Dwelling on this stuff doesn't help anyone.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think most people have learned. The point is that you aren't helping the Iraqi people by complaining about it. It's done. It's over, and the Iraqi people have to get their country together. Dwelling on this stuff doesn't help anyone.
    I'm neither hurting nor helping he Iraqi people. They are not dependent on me, and should not depend on the US. Whatever happens there will depend on them.

    However, you should know they already understand what I have said. You can find quotes from them that are even harsher than what I say.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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