View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #641
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    So you want to remove a very viable career path for many individuals? How caring of you in these times...
    No, I didn't say that, not at all.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No, I didn't say that, not at all.

    It's only a straw man in your narrow minded view. What do you think the results would be?
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  3. #643
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    It's only a straw man in your narrow minded view. What do you think the results would be?
    The result would be that the draftees would still have the option of a career path if they chose to follow it. Your response was a straw man, as I didn't say that there would be no professional military.

    Now, in WWII, there was a draft. The nation was on a war footing, nearly every American supported the war, sacrificed for the war, did what they could to win the war. The result was that the war was won in about three years. In Vietnam, there was a draft. Only a few supported the war, found the war really necessary, sacrificed for the war. As a result, the war dragged on for a total of 21 years, and we lost.

    In the current wars, only the military has sacrificed anything for the wars, the average American has taken no part at all in the wars, and they have dragged on now for a decade.

    The point of all that is that we should never go to war unless the entire nation is behind it, willing to sacrifice for it, willing to go and fight, and to do whatever it takes to win it.

    WWII was necessary, but neither Vietnam, nor Iraq, nor Afganistan were.
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  4. #644
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The result would be that the draftees would still have the option of a career path if they chose to follow it. Your response was a straw man, as I didn't say that there would be no professional military.

    Now, in WWII, there was a draft. The nation was on a war footing, nearly every American supported the war, sacrificed for the war, did what they could to win the war. The result was that the war was won in about three years. In Vietnam, there was a draft. Only a few supported the war, found the war really necessary, sacrificed for the war. As a result, the war dragged on for a total of 21 years, and we lost.

    In the current wars, only the military has sacrificed anything for the wars, the average American has taken no part at all in the wars, and they have dragged on now for a decade.

    The point of all that is that we should never go to war unless the entire nation is behind it, willing to sacrifice for it, willing to go and fight, and to do whatever it takes to win it.

    WWII was necessary, but neither Vietnam, nor Iraq, nor Afganistan were.
    You're missing the point. There was a draft during Vietnam only because of a lack of support. Today many join the military because they believe it's the right choice for them, want to serve, and initially, many think it would be a career or a way to help pay for college once their enlistment is up. Re-instituting the draft would deny many of making that choice...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  5. #645
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Oh really? Have you? Well please link to it again as I must have missed it. Thanks in advance.
    From post 130.

    In our view, as a threshold matter, humanitarian intervention that occurs without the consent of the relevant government can be justified only in the face of ongoing or imminent genocide, or comparable mass slaughter or loss of life.

    (snip)

    Brutal as Saddam Hussein's reign had been, the scope of the Iraqi government's killing in March 2003 was not of the exceptional and dire magnitude that would justify humanitarian intervention. We have no illusions about Saddam Hussein's vicious inhumanity. Having devoted extensive time and effort to documenting his atrocities, we estimate that in the last twenty-five years of Ba`th Party rule the Iraqi government murdered or "disappeared" some quarter of a million Iraqis, if not more. In addition, one must consider such abuses as Iraq's use of chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers. However, by the time of the March 2003 invasion, Saddam Hussein's killing had ebbed.

    (snip)
    Humanitarianism, even understood broadly as concern for the welfare of the Iraqi people, was at best a subsidiary motive for the invasion of Iraq.

    (snip)

    Conclusion

    In sum, the invasion of Iraq failed to meet the test for a humanitarian intervention. Most important, the killing in Iraq at the time was not of the exceptional nature that would justify such intervention. In addition, intervention was not the last reasonable option to stop Iraqi atrocities. Intervention was not motivated primarily by humanitarian concerns.

    War in Iraq: Not a Humanitarian Intervention | Human Rights Watch

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  6. #646
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    You're missing the point. There was a draft during Vietnam only because of a lack of support. Today many join the military because they believe it's the right choice for them, want to serve, and initially, many think it would be a career or a way to help pay for college once their enlistment is up. Re-instituting the draft would deny many of making that choice...
    You can still allow enlistment when their is a draft. During Viet Nam many enlisted rather than got drafted because then you had more options on assignments. Also, currently we have a de facto draft since enlistees are being forced to continue their duty past their expected end of service.

  7. #647
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    You can still allow enlistment when their is a draft. During Viet Nam many enlisted rather than got drafted because then you had more options on assignments. Also, currently we have a de facto draft since enlistees are being forced to continue their duty past their expected end of service.
    Again the point was not understood. As long as there are more individuals wanting to join than is necessary to meet the military's personnel requirements, if the draft was brought back and some arbitrary number of our armed forces was to be drawn from that pool, there would be some who had hoped to enlist that might not be able to do so. As far as I am aware, this country has only used the draft when its personnel needs were not being met through enlistment which is why all males are still required to register with the Selective Service...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  8. #648
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    You're missing the point. There was a draft during Vietnam only because of a lack of support. Today many join the military because they believe it's the right choice for them, want to serve, and initially, many think it would be a career or a way to help pay for college once their enlistment is up. Re-instituting the draft would deny many of making that choice...
    That's untrue, I was drafted in 1963 way before Vietnam became a real mess. I never served in Vietnam, but spent a year in South Korea. Re-instituting the draft would help stop or curtail the needless wars like Iraq and maybe Afghanistan. BTW, during Vietnam very few National Guard units fought, if any. That's .why George W. Bush joined the TNG. For Iraq and Afghanistan wars state National Guards were used extensively.

  9. #649
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    That's untrue, I was drafted in 1963 way before Vietnam became a real mess. I never served in Vietnam, but spent a year in South Korea. Re-instituting the draft would help stop or curtail the needless wars like Iraq and maybe Afghanistan. BTW, during Vietnam very few National Guard units fought, if any. That's .why George W. Bush joined the TNG. For Iraq and Afghanistan wars state National Guards were used extensively.
    Again, the draft is used when personnel needs are not being met. There is no issue with meeting enlistment quotas today...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  10. #650
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    That's untrue, I was drafted in 1963 way before Vietnam became a real mess. I never served in Vietnam, but spent a year in South Korea. Re-instituting the draft would help stop or curtail the needless wars like Iraq and maybe Afghanistan. BTW, during Vietnam very few National Guard units fought, if any. That's .why George W. Bush joined the TNG. For Iraq and Afghanistan wars state National Guards were used extensively.
    BTW, thank you for your service...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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