View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #561
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The USA should start doing almost all of its "Nation building" inside U.S. borders, there's plenty to do in the USA.

    After we get the USA squared away would be a good time to start 'thinking' about helping others.
    Oh do I ever AGREE with your comments! Kudos

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It is the same as saying the world is better with him.


    In order to get rid of Saddam Hussein the USA spent about $1 trillion (and counting), lost 4,500 dead, and 30,000 wounded American warriors, killed and wounded hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's, and pretty much destroyed Iraq's infrastructure.

    The only country to gain from the Bush mis-administration's illegal war in Iraq was and is Iran. The USA and the West gained nothing in Iraq.

    That tells me that getting rid of Saddam Hussein did not make the world a better place.

    A lot of Iraqi's say that it didn't even make Iraq a better place. My mind is still open on that one.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    In order to get rid of Saddam Hussein the USA spent about $1 trillion (and counting), lost 4,500 dead, and 30,000 wounded American warriors, killed and wounded hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's, and pretty much destroyed Iraq's infrastructure.

    The only country to gain from the Bush mis-administration's illegal war in Iraq was and is Iran. The USA and the West gained nothing in Iraq.

    That tells me that getting rid of Saddam Hussein did not make the world a better place.

    A lot of Iraqi's say that it didn't even make Iraq a better place. My mind is still open on that one.
    Oh, well, by that measure, leaving Hitler in power would have been a grand bargain. Seriously, how does one get so twisted as to think such as you do?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Oh do I ever AGREE with your comments! Kudos
    my wife just saw this and asked if you could rebuild me while you're at it ...

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Oh, well, by that measure, leaving Hitler in power would have been a grand bargain. Seriously, how does one get so twisted as to think such as you do?
    Are you serious? Equating taking out Hussein to taking out Hitler? Talk about twisted ...

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bori View Post
    Are you serious? Equating taking out Hussein to taking out Hitler? Talk about twisted ...
    Are you serious?

    I'll leave you to figure out what I actually meant; my threshold for suffering those who can't follow a train of thought two cars long is at its limit for today.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #567
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Simple-take the opposite of anything that the Bush mis-administration said about the Iraq war and you will have the truth.

    No you wont. Westerners like simple. This is where "WMD" came from. This is also where ignoring all the issues building towards 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq come in for protestors.

    While the rest of the world actually deals with the grey, Westerners need everything to fit into perfect categories of organization and fixed to labels. Do you think hundreds of thouands of starving Iraqis cared about WMD or Democracy or 9/11? If we are to assume that those words held little meaning to them prior to 2003, why do you think those words were used by the White House when addressing a Western world? It's because we are shallow people in the West and our leaders know it. The less we know about what we do to the rest of the world for our economic securities, the better we like it. What we don't like is a war that involves economic security, because it reminds us that energy doesn't simply spring forth from the ground as if a gift from the energy fairy. This is why "WMD" and "Democracy" are used. "Democracy" and "Freedom" are the same words used by American leaders when trying to convince Americans that war in Europe was necessary during both World Wars. Do you think America's econmic security being threatened was used by Truman or Roosevelt to convince Americans that Europe mattered? No way. Willing to forgive a little deciet for those periods though arent you?

    You see, we don't care how many people starve or are oppressed into economic misery and religious zealousy under leaders we maintain just as long as we don't conduct a war to remind us of it. And when an event like 9/11 occurs we like to pretend that our enemy simply hates freedom or that Americans simply had it coming to them. It's not war that bothers people who have absolutely nothing to do with it as they flip channels in their Western world. It's feeling that they are supposed to care that drives them to protest the very thing that provides them that channel flipping security. We would rather ignore nations we condemn to hell through peaceful means than actually break a sweat dealing with an issue that has been ignored for too long for our securities.

    Do you actually think France cares about Libyans or Africans below the Sahara? Of course not. Just 1 month prior to insisting that American help them against Libya's dictator, they were publicing announcing their support for Tunisia's dictator. It's all about economic security. So when looking for the truth, one might need to think harder than just opposites of what politicians state to an academically lazy and spolied West.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The USA should start doing almost all of its "Nation building" inside U.S. borders, there's plenty to do in the USA.

    After we get the USA squared away would be a good time to start 'thinking' about helping others.
    Yes..yes...the same old rhetoric used by Americans since before World War I. America, like all nations, will never be squared away. This is the price of civilization.

    The problem with such a simple outlook is that it ignores the fact that our economic security has always relied upon the health of foreign regions. Our very first excursion abroad was the Barbary Pirates Wars merely a few decades after the Revolutionary War. Those wars were about securing our a trade route through the Mediterranean from pirates that Europeans had been paying ransom and bribes to for decades. The brand new U.S. couldn't afford to pay these ransoms and bribes, so sailors and Marines deployed.

    Fast forward to 9/11 - Do you think that 9/11 would have happened had the Middle East been a healthy region? No way. This has always been our foreign policy mission, no matter how the words are written or how politicians spin the truth across a radio and later on TV, dealing with a nation has always been about that region.

    Of course, there is plenty to do in the U.S. Our problem here is not foreign dealings. It's the "incoproration of America" since the Reconstruction Period that has created most of our problems. It wasn't until Roosevelt (FDR) that the White House actually placed the government on the side of the citizenry. We have plenty of wealth. We can do whatever we want. Unfortunately, we have plenty of politicians that have designed an unfair economic system while preaching to us about diversions since Cleveland (can be argued before that). The very minute the majority of America truly realizes that they have no representation in Washington, the quicker we can address those internal problems.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Are you serious?

    I'll leave you to figure out what I actually meant; my threshold for suffering those who can't follow a train of thought two cars long is at its limit for today.
    When you're incapable of making an intelligent point, simply pretend you said something profound and quickly move on ... hurry ...

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I do because it's the truth, pretty much everything that Bush and his gang said about Iraq turned out to be lies.
    WMD in Iraq was the lie. You imply that there was more? What does it say that you needed that lie? What does it say that Obama has kept virtually every single foreign policy that Liberals used to protest about? Maybe you should get beyond the simple of the 2003 protestor.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post

    And it certainly won't help Bush's bottom basement image in future history books.
    I believe historians are more intelligent than the average channel flipper. They have a way of looking at all the issues and coming to a proper conclusion. Nobody with even an ounce of intelligence today confines the invasion of Iraq to "WMD." My assessment is that historians will do what they have done for all presidents and see a greater truth than today's CNN or FOX sensationalism. Did you know that Vietnam actually went back to Roosevelt? That Truman began financing France's stay in Vietnam? That Kennedy started placing troops in Vietnm? Probably not. But you know Johnson and Nixon, right? Think of Bush as merely the guy who inherited a built up mess that eventually was going to need sorting out.

    Rumsfeld, on the other hand, worse SECDEF in history.

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