View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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  • Yes

    87 70.16%
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    37 29.84%
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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #471
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    Catawba's Avatar
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    It sure did.

    Iraq was and is a great recruiting tool for Al-Qaeda.

    A lot of Sunni Moslems are looking for some payback for their family and tribal members who were tortured and killed by Shia police commandos trained and overseen by the USA.

    They will never forgive or forget. They are looking for some payback. They see this as a blood debt that must be paid.


    We see it playing out now:

    Attacks claim 55 lives on Iraq anniversary

    "It's the second time in less than a week that the Iraqi capital has endured major simultaneous attacks."

    Attacks claim 55 lives on Iraq anniversary - CNN.com
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #472
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    marywollstonecraft's Avatar
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We see it playing out now:

    Attacks claim 55 lives on Iraq anniversary

    "It's the second time in less than a week that the Iraqi capital has endured major simultaneous attacks."

    Attacks claim 55 lives on Iraq anniversary - CNN.com
    and of course, those who think the invasion was a good idea don't understand that for most Iraqis, keeping your head down and not criticizing was something they could do to stay relatively safe under saddam. they may not have liked it, but that was what they chose to do to stay safe.

    now - going to the market, going to university, going to the mosque, meeting friends in a public place - ALL of these everyday things are dangerous. You lose family members not because they are outspoken, but because every day activities have become dangerous.

    they weren't before the invasion.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  3. #473
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    and of course, those who think the invasion was a good idea don't understand that for most Iraqis, keeping your head down and not criticizing was something they could do to stay relatively safe under saddam. they may not have liked it, but that was what they chose to do to stay safe.

    now - going to the market, going to university, going to the mosque, meeting friends in a public place - ALL of these everyday things are dangerous. You lose family members not because they are outspoken, but because every day activities have become dangerous.

    they weren't before the invasion.


    Indeed! And women are treated worse under the new corrupt government than they were under Saddam:

    "According to the findings of a recent survey by local rights NGOs, women were treated better during the Saddam Hussein era – and their rights were more respected – than they are now.

    “We interviewed women in the country and met with local NGOs dealing with gender issues to develop this survey, which asked questions about the quality of women’s life and respect for their rights,” said Senar Muhammad, president of Baghdad-based NGO Woman Freedom Organisation. “The results show that women are less respected now than they were under the previous regime, while their freedom has been curtailed.”

    IRIN Middle East | IRAQ: Women were more respected under Saddam, say women
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #474
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Indeed! And women are treated worse under the new corrupt government than they were under Saddam:

    "According to the findings of a recent survey by local rights NGOs, women were treated better during the Saddam Hussein era – and their rights were more respected – than they are now.

    “We interviewed women in the country and met with local NGOs dealing with gender issues to develop this survey, which asked questions about the quality of women’s life and respect for their rights,” said Senar Muhammad, president of Baghdad-based NGO Woman Freedom Organisation. “The results show that women are less respected now than they were under the previous regime, while their freedom has been curtailed.”

    IRIN Middle East | IRAQ: Women were more respected under Saddam, say women
    the personal status law enacted when Iraq became a republic meant that under Saddam, women had better rights in Iraq than in any other country in the region. In 2003, I knew women living in Iraq who had never worn Hijab in their lives. Those same women, by 2004, would not go out uncovered for fear OF BEING ATTACKED.

    Christians I knew feared the war, along with their muslim brothers and sisters they said bush was hamak, but they rejoiced when Saddam fell. But their joy turned to fear and in 2004 they fled. One woman said to me that she had always got on with her Muslim neighbours and had never had problems. In 2004 things changed, and they had to get out.

    Sabeans I know have had it even worse.

    This is the bit that the pro Iraq lobby don't get. Real people, ordinary people who coped under Saddam, the Iran/Iraq conflict and the bombing of Baghdad in 1991, who had braced for the invasion, stocking up with food and filling every spare container with water because who knew how long before they could get water again (in '91 they had had to go down to the Tigris for weeks after the bombing to get drinking water) could no longer cope after the invasion.

    They will never go back home. They know it is still not safe for them there, and they don't see a time when it will be.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  5. #475
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    so what you are saying is that the decision was based on emotion, not reason?

    That is appalling.
    I'm sure it wasn't based strictly on emotion.

  6. #476
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    The problem is that often it is the US that doesn't grasp the entire picture. they see it through a prism of "what will benefit the corporations that grease the US govts palm."
    Do you have any evidence of your accusation?

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    well I would say that you access some pretty limited sources.

    BBC World Service - The Documentary, After Saddam - Hugh Sykes Returns To Iraq, Episode 1

    I would also say that you have hardly ever spoken to an Iraqi.

    religious minorities such as Sabeans and Christians were better off under Saddam. The Sabeans and Chtistians I have met have fled SINCE 2003. And they will never go back:

    Persecution of Religious Minorities in Iraq by Shatha Almutawa

    the UN estimates that about 7% of the population fled:

    Refugees of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    these people are not insurgents.

    The people who live in fear now are not insurgents.

    Its not a matter of whether I am bitter.

    As someone who has over many years worked with people from Iraq, I am offended by the inhumanity expressed by those who dismiss the ongoing tragedy and refuse to accept that the invasion was the catalyst for hundreds of thousands of deaths and the suffering of millions of people, no matter what evidence is presented.
    Nobody made any such claims. The question was is the world better off without Saddam Hussein.

  8. #478
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm sure it wasn't based strictly on emotion.
    why was 911 mentioned then?

    It isn't as if Iraq had anything to do with that.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  9. #479
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Nobody made any such claims. The question was is the world better off without Saddam Hussein.
    what do you define as "the world?"
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  10. #480
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Do you mean in addition to the hundreds of thousands killed necessary to install the new regime? And we aided Saddam for 8 years when he was the most brutal. Why wait until he was an old man with a shotgun?

    Torture in Iraq 'worse than under Saddam'

    "Torture in Iraq is worse now than it was under the regime of Saddam Hussein and "is totally out of hand", according to a United Nations investigator.
    "The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," said Manfred Nowak, a UN special investigator on torture, at a press conference in Geneva.

    He said government forces, private militia and terrorist groups were all involved.

    "You have terrorist groups, you have the military, you have police, you have these militias. There are so many people who are actually abducted, seriously tortured and finally killed," said Mr Nowak, an Austrian law professor."

    Torture in Iraq 'worse than under Saddam' | World news | guardian.co.uk
    It's only natural that things get worse before they get better in such a situation. I'm sorry that you can't accept what has happened, but it happened and now crying over it online isn't going to change a thing. The thing we need to do is look to the future and not at the past.

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