View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #141
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    As far as Germany goes the reasons were similar
    Probably not. You've dug yourself in a hole on equating Bush's War with WWI and WWII. A wise man would stop digging.










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  2. #142
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Probably not. You've dug yourself in a hole on equating Bush's War with WWI and WWII. A wise man would stop digging.
    I dug nothing, to deny Saddam Hussein was guilty of horrendous murders and rapes of his own people is irresponsible and a lie

  3. #143
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    If we werent attacked and werent declared war on and we didnt intervene? No. Many historians agree that the USSR could of taken back Europe and won WW2 with Britain, and the Partisans.
    Stalinist domination of Western Europe, and the deaths of tens of millions in Asia under the boot of Imperial Japanese rule isn't concerning to you?

  4. #144
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Interesting comparison, except thousands of soldiers don't die assisting our nation's poor. Trillions are not poured out on barren lands far from home not helping our citizens past a few defense contractor's bottomline... oh speaking of those guys, so too has simple 'national defense' turned into a huge mess of lobbyists, contractors, and thousands of handouts.

    I refrained from posting in this thread mainly because they are rather liberal artsy. Is the 'world' better off without one less brutal dictator? Is the world better when a new butterfly spreads it's wings?

    The World is neither better or worse off. Iran has new found power and position as two sunni rivals have been knocked down a rung or two, the huge cost and distraction caused by Afghanistan and Iraq gave Iran plenty of room to start a regionally destabilizing nuclear program- we swapped a rather caged tiger for an on the loose one... greeeeeat.

    Compared to many other past ruthless dictators and mass killers of their own people Saddam is a light wieght. We seem to forget how much assistance we gave him and the blind eye we turned when he slaughtered so many Kurds before we hated him. Doesn't anyone remember Special Envoy for President Reagan, Ronald Rumsfeld classic neo-con, shaking Saddam's hand in 1983? That year is imporatant because according to kurds and iranians thats the year Iraq started using chemical weapons. Two years later Ambassador to the UN Kirkpatrick worked to 'downplay' the UN sanctions against Iraq over the use of 'annihilation insecticides'.

    So this newly found disgust and outrage over Saddam doing Saddam seems a bit fake, or at the VERY least ignorant of history.

    Those who substituted Iraq for the World in the original question...

    Given the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi have died in the war and upheaval since we decided we knew what was best for Iraq, the infiltration of iranian group in the majority Shia population, the tenuous cobbled together government that looks more like the nation of Lebanon rather than Lebanon, Pa....

    Ignore the Kurds are basically outside national controls and policies, the Sunni minority is being bribed to play ball and the ****te majority can't govern any better than we did...

    I'd say the sham elections that were held are more like a communist staged event than even Chicago elections...

    More negotiating went on behind closed doors to determine the outcome of the 'free and open' elections than any brokered convention we ever had in this country.

    Iraq better off???? Not enough time has passed to be able to say it is.
    There are some pretty massive problems with your narrative.

    1. I'm not sure how it make sense to compare the removal of a brutal dictator (your words) to a butterfly spreading its wings. That is just nonsensical.

    2. Actually Saddam is ranked fairly high in terms of the amount of people slaughtered under his rule. Between the al-Anfal Campaign and the suppression operations of the 1990's it is estimated Saddam's regime directly murdered almost half a million of its citizens. This puts him somewhere in between Mengstu and Pol Pot, so let's not quibble: he was a monster.

    3. Iraq's acquisition of chemical weapons has sourced to a huge variety of countries and petrochemical companies that exported chemical compounds and in some cases synthesized materials to Iraq. The largest patrons were the Netherlands, Germany, France, Singapore, Brazil, etc. The United States provided comparatively little and nor did the Commerce Department approve the direct export of chemical products to Iraq.

    4. Desiring that neither Iranian theocracy nor the fascistic government of Iraq would dominate the region was not a sin on the Reagan administration. Like Kissinger quipped "It's a pity they can't both lose." Absent of direct intervention, the only tool the US had was tinkering with the levers of supply and support and fighting on the margins to prevent one side from claiming victory. Rumsfeld's visit to Baghdad took place in this context.

    5. No question the decision to abandon the Kurds, and specifically the Barzani's without warning is one of the darkest blemishes Kissinger has to his name. However it is again worth noting that absent actual intervention like we had in 2003 there was not a huge amount that could have been done beyond funneling arms and supplies to the Kurds which we had been doing.

    6. The Kurds should be outside national controls, they have a Federal agreement with the central government and quite frankly the KRG is an exemplar of what the Iraq War could still accomplish.

    7. The elections were hardly shams, that was the whole problem remember? Allawi's Iraqqiya list won a slim majority over Malaki's list, however it took months of painstaking negotiations to get a coalition agreement and keep the government standing. Despite the flaws the situation was resolved via a political resolution, not death squads. Moreover the recent local elections once again have shown that power can and has shifted electorally in the country.

    8. The proponents of the Iraq War are usually not arguing that in 2013 Iraq is better than it was in 1979 (before the Iran-Iraq war and the tightening of Saddam's group) what they have usually argued is that Saddam's removal and the implantation of democratic rule offers Iraq the chance at a better future than its ever expected before and the situation is continually improving.

  5. #145
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The world is a better place now because we don't have GWB in the whitehouse lying us into more wars and driving this country to the brink of economic and moral bankruptcy. The Iraq war has nothing to do with it.
    Your right, GWB is not in the Whitehouse. Barack Obama is now lying to us on every turn and running up a debt that cannot be paid. What drives a man who wants to be President to want to "fundamentally change" the United States of America. The only reason Obama is President is the color of his skin.

  6. #146
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Stalinist domination of Western Europe, and the deaths of tens of millions in Asia under the boot of Imperial Japanese rule isn't concerning to you?
    I think Japan was dragging us into an Asian war no matter what. Although I think the argument can be made that Stalinist domination of Western Europe would have ended up being more humane than Stalinist domination in Asia, which lead to tens of millions of deaths and at least 2 major wars.

  7. #147
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Probably not. You've dug yourself in a hole on equating Bush's War with WWI and WWII. A wise man would stop digging.

    Why isn't it Clinton's war? He advocated taking out Saddam to but did not have the balls to do it.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  8. #148
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Why isn't it Clinton's war? He advocated taking out Saddam to but did not have the balls to do it.
    Not really true....Clinton was busy bombing Kosovo at the time and didn't have the propaganda machine initiated for Iraq...that occurred after 9/11 when people were gullible enough to believe Hussein had ties to that attack..
    Libertarian and Atheist...wow I'm a hated man.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    Not really true....Clinton was busy bombing Kosovo at the time and didn't have the propaganda machine initiated for Iraq...that occurred after 9/11 when people were gullible enough to believe Hussein had ties to that attack..
    Bingo!










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  10. #150
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    As far as Germany goes the reasons were similar
    except that Germany declared war on the USA. Iraq never did.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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