View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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    87 70.16%
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    37 29.84%
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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #1171
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Why would they admit to being so stupid? Besides Wilson is sent to Niger to investigate a sale of uranium to Iraq by Niger. What iS Wilson to think when he hears her on the tube June 6, 2003? His NYT op-Ed WAS July 6, 2003.
    I will not try to discern what others may have thought, but the British case never depended on the forgeries.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Good times!


    April 2, 2013
    Iraq: 4 Newspapers Are Attacked

    "About 50 gunmen in military uniforms burst into the offices of four independent newspapers in Baghdad, stabbing and beating employees, staff members and officials said Tuesday. The raiders attacked reporters with batons and knives and smashed computers and furniture in the offices of one newspaper, according to its editor, Bassam al-Sheikh. He said he recognized the attackers as militant Shiites belonging to a hard-line group led by the cleric Mahmoud al-Sarkhi. During the attack on Monday evening, the attackers berated the editor for publishing an article in his paper accusing Mr. Sarkhi of trying to dominate the Shiite holy city of Karbala, the editor said. Mr. Sarkhi’s office was not available for comment."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/03/wo...cked.html?_r=0
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #1173
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I will not try to discern what others may have thought, but the British case never depended on the forgeries.
    That's either your opinion or a fact you can prove.

  4. #1174
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    That's either your opinion or a fact you can prove.
    It has been the consistent position of HMG.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #1175
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    It has been the consistent position of HMG.
    So what? That doesn't make it true.

  6. #1176
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    The Iraq Effect: War Has Increased Terrorism Sevenfold Worldwide

    "The president's argument conveyed two important assumptions: first, that the threat of jihadist terrorism to U.S. interests would have been greater without the war in Iraq, and second, that the war is reducing the overall global pool of terrorists. However, the White House has never cited any evidence for either of these assumptions, and none appears to be publicly available.

    The administration's own National Intelligence Estimate on "Trends in Global Terrorism: implications for the United States," circulated within the government in April 2006 and partially declassified in October, states that "the Iraq War has become the 'cause celebre' for jihadists ... and is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives."

    "Our study shows that the Iraq War has generated a stunning sevenfold increase in the yearly rate of fatal jihadist attacks, amounting to literally hundreds of additional terrorist attacks and thousands of civilian lives lost; even when terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan is excluded, fatal attacks in the rest of the world have increased by more than one-third."

    The Iraq Effect: War Has Increased Terrorism Sevenfold Worldwide
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #1177
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    So what? That doesn't make it true.

    I found their case persuasive then, and I have seen no reason to change my view.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  8. #1178
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Just for the record, Hitler helped us out by declaring war on us as we began to grapple with the political problem of how to include Germany in our war against Japan after Pearl Harbor.
    My information says the U.S. declared war on Germany first, after FDR goaded Japan into bombing Pearl Harbor.

  9. #1179
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I found their case persuasive then, and I have seen no reason to change my view.
    Fair enough then, it's your opinion.

    What was Condoleezza Rice talking about then?

    Ambassador Wilson, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.
    AMB. WILSON: Thanks, Tim.

    MR. RUSSERT: I want to bring our viewers back to some recent history here and put this all in context. This is what started this whole discussion with you, the president's State of the Union message January 28, 2003.

    (Videotape, State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003):

    PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.

    (End videotape)

    MR. RUSSERT: You saw the president say that and thought what?

    AMB. WILSON: I thought, well, he must not have been talking about Niger because he would know better if he was. I then called the Department of State and talked to the Bureau of African Affairs, who had not seen the State of the Union address, but their interpretation was that he was probably speaking about another African country, which was fine for me, so long as he wasn't talking about Niger.

    MR. RUSSERT: Then on June 8, Dr. Rice, the national security adviser, appeared on MEET THE PRESS, and I asked her about how those words wound up in the president's State of the Union address, and she said this:

    (Videotape, MEET THE PRESS, June 8, 2003):

    DR. CONDOLEEZZA RICE: Maybe someone knew down in the bowels of the agency, but no one in our circles knew that there were doubts and suspicions that this might be a forgery.

    (End videotape)

    MR. RUSSERT: When you saw that?

    AMB. WILSON: Well, I knew that she had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. There was already lots of suspicion about the documentation, and in fact, as it's been borne out, when the vice president was on this show and you had asked him if he had asked the question about going to Niger, he had said, "Well, I asked the CIA briefer about these reports, and he had come back and told me within a couple of days that there was nothing to them." That was a year before the State of the Union address. This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.

  10. #1180
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I found their case persuasive then, and I have seen no reason to change my view.
    A good lie is too often more persuasive than the truth.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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