View Poll Results: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

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Thread: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

  1. #1051
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    It is a puzzle, isn't it? It was the same intelligence information everyone was privy at the time that decided their vote. It's bad form to now say something different, and blame Bush, just because they, and everyone else, believed what they saw and heard, IMO. We could use the same argument...after the fact... on BHO's decisions regarding Egypt and Libya! :
    It was not the same intelligence information.

    I'm amazed that even after 10+ years, there are still people who live in some alternate universe where they continue to believe that nonsense, even though it has been thoroughly debunked over and over again.

    Here is the report given to Bush, others in his administration with the proper clearance, and to members of Congressional intelligence committees:


    96 page NIE

    And here is the report given to the other 95% of Congress:

    25 page NIE

    Do you really think a 25 page report IS THE SAME as a 96 page report??
    Last edited by Sheik Yerbuti; 03-31-13 at 01:48 PM.

  2. #1052
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Do you realize that the NIE was published (Oct 2, 2002) just 9 days prior to the vote on the Iraq Resolution (Oct 11, 2002)? Very few Congress people had a chance to read it.
    The White Paper, which is what most of Congress received, was released 2 days later on October 4th (a Friday).

  3. #1053
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    It was not the same intelligence information.

    I'm amazed that even after 10+ years, there are still people who live in some alternate universe where they continue to believe that nonsense, even though it has been thoroughly debunked over and over again.

    Here is the report given to Bush, others in his administration with the proper clearance, and to members of Congressional intelligence committees:


    96 page NIE

    And here is the report given to the other 95% of Congress:

    28 page NIE

    Do you really think a 28 page report IS THE SAME as a 96 page report??
    Good morning Sheik Yerbuti.

    Since the ones on the Congressional Intelligence Committees, etc, who saw the report made their decision based on what they read, and since those who had not apparently trusted in their leaders to make the correct decisions, and voted based on that, what is wrong with that? As slowly as Congress acts, I'm sometimes surprised that anything ever gets accomplished in DC!

    My point was that it is wrong to place blame after the fact! It's history now, and cannot be changed by pointing fingers at others who thought they were making the correct decision at the time.

  4. #1054
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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You don't know what you don't know.
    It's been ten years and both the House and the Senate drafted in depth reports on the. How many more years and reports do you think you need until you understand the public has been made aware of what happened?

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning Sheik Yerbuti.

    Since the ones on the Congressional Intelligence Committees, etc, who saw the report made their decision based on what they read, and since those who had not apparently trusted in their leaders to make the correct decisions, and voted based on that, what is wrong with that? As slowly as Congress acts, I'm sometimes surprised that anything ever gets accomplished in DC!

    My point was that it is wrong to place blame after the fact! It's history now, and cannot be changed by pointing fingers at others who thought they were making the correct decision at the time.
    No, your point was that they all had the same information Bush had.

    Hopefully, now you'll stop spreading that nonsense.

    And of those on the Senate Intelligence committee, the ones who did have the same intel as Bush, more Democrats voted against the resolution than those who voted for it.

    And it is not wrong to place blame after the fact. We won't learn from our mistakes if we simply try to forget mistakes that we made and we'll be doomed to repeat them again.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The forged documents were immediately determined to be forgeries and were never used in any report. Wilson didn't know that, and conflated them with other intelligence that had nothing to do with the forgeries.
    That is a complete fabrication. As stated, the first time those documents made it into CIA hands was in 2001.

    It wasn't until after Bush already deployed troops to Iraq in 2003 that they were determined to be forgeries.

    A year and a half later is not "immediate."

    And had you read the Senate report I recommended you read, you wouldn't have made the ridiculous (and erroneous) assertion that they were never used in a report. They were. The Senate report mentions at least two reports the CIA drafted as a result of the fake documents purporting a sale of Uranium to Iraq. And this all occurred before Wilson was ever asked to go to Niger as it would be a catalyst for sending him.

    I'd really appreciate it if you would learn what really happened and stop posting bullxit you know nothing about.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    It was not the same intelligence information.

    I'm amazed that even after 10+ years, there are still people who live in some alternate universe where they continue to believe that nonsense, even though it has been thoroughly debunked over and over again.

    Here is the report given to Bush, others in his administration with the proper clearance, and to members of Congressional intelligence committees:


    96 page NIE

    And here is the report given to the other 95% of Congress:

    25 page NIE

    Do you really think a 25 page report IS THE SAME as a 96 page report??
    The statement that they all saw the same information is logically true, but is misleading. They all saw the 25 page report; the Bush administration saw more.


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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    The statement that they all saw the same information is logically true, but is misleading. They all saw the 25 page report; the Bush administration saw more.
    It's not even logically true. A 25 page report is not the same as a 96 page report.

    Missing from the White Paper was all of the indpeth analysis which was heavily contaminated with ambiguity and uncertainty. The powers that be cleansed the contamination for most of Congress to get their vote on the upcoming authorization to use military force resolution.

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    To me, the question should be is Iraq a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    And as I said before, the ten plus years between the Kurd Uprising and the Iraqi invasion (when the No Fly zones and UN inspectors kept his aggression in relative check)? No, I do not believe Iraq (as a whole) is better off now then under Saddam during that time frame.

    Before the Kurd Uprising - Iraq is probably better off now then it was then (imo).

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    Re: Is the world a better place without Saddam Hussein?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    That is a complete fabrication. As stated, the first time those documents made it into CIA hands was in 2001.

    It wasn't until after Bush already deployed troops to Iraq in 2003 that they were determined to be forgeries.

    A year and a half later is not "immediate."

    And had you read the Senate report I recommended you read, you wouldn't have made the ridiculous (and erroneous) assertion that they were never used in a report. They were. The Senate report mentions at least two reports the CIA drafted as a result of the fake documents purporting a sale of Uranium to Iraq. And this all occurred before Wilson was ever asked to go to Niger as it would be a catalyst for sending him.

    I'd really appreciate it if you would learn what really happened and stop posting bullxit you know nothing about.
    Put in the kindest way possible, you are uninformed. Here is a brief excerpt from my cleared resume.

    3. Chief for Africa, CIA, September 2000 June 2003

    Led and managed a staff of several hundred both in Headquarters and dispersed continent wide. Oversaw and managed the full spectrum of operations conducted both unilaterally and in cooperation with allies.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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