View Poll Results: Was the civil war worth it

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  • yes

    38 76.00%
  • no

    12 24.00%
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Thread: Was the civil war worth it all

  1. #71
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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    It was not slander at all. To claim he believed that eventually slaves would have been freed anyway decades later - as if time stands still and if there would be no more slaves breed by rape and seized imported over the next decades
    just to point out one that you can do away with -- The importation of slaves was made outlaw before the War of Aggression took place. The South led the charge on its abolition.

    Also, while no doubt some of the atrocities you've mentioned took place, as they do today where all men are free, but we will not dwell upon that, i'd also say that raped pregnant women can'tpick cotton, beaten to a bloody pulp slaves can't pick cotton, murdered slaves CAN'T PICK COTTON.

    You think slaves were cheap? Like say a dime a dozen? Slaves weren't treated like they should (read free men here) but to propagate a brutality so extreme that it would make the purpose of their servitude null and void is not only hyperbolic, but soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo unnecessary.

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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Well, too bad because I'm going to respond anyway.

    1. There was never at any time prior to the Civil War a threat of emancipation.

    2. The Southern States never argued that they feared emancipation in existing slave States. Their arguments centered around whether or not NEW States would be slave-holding or free and whether or not Northern States would return fugitive slaves as the law mandated at that time.

    3. There were FAR more pressing issues with real-world consequences in the South, namely import tariffs, than legal and academic debates regarding slavery in future States.

    4. Abraham Lincoln did not have the moral conviction or political support to emancipate slaves without some politically expedient pretext. That pretext turned out to be the fact that emancipating slaves would deal a crippling economic blow to the Confederate States in the middle of a war in which the Union was being thrashed.

    The Civil War was not about slavery, but it brought about its end much sooner than it would have happened had Southerners been content with paying their taxes. So, the answer to the poll question is YES. It was worth it.
    In #4, the part I bolded is pure bull****.

    The Proclamation could not be enforced in areas still under rebellion, but as the army took control of Confederate regions, the slaves in those regions were emancipated rather than returned to their masters.
    The North only freed slaves in regions they took back, meaning places where they beat up the South. The Proclamation meant nothing in places the South still held. So, your assertion is nonsense.

    The Emancipation Proclamation did not weaken the South's war effort in any way shape or form. The South simply lost their slaves when they lost territory. If the slave holders had won, they could have kept their slaves. But, they lost.

  3. #73
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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Another question about the poll is: Was the Civil War worth it to who?

  4. #74
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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    (if you'll allow me to add)

    ***Anyone who's planning on responding with the "the US committed an act of aggression by invading the CSA," don't. The war wasn't an invasion of the Confederacy by the United States as the apologists like to pretend. The battle of Fort Sumter was CSA-initiated, on territory that was legally Union territory even if the secession of the states was legal, because Ft. Sumter was military property. Therefore the CSA was the aggressor.
    I'm glad you were given the final say on that...

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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    just to point out one that you can do away with -- The importation of slaves was made outlaw before the War of Aggression took place. The South led the charge on its abolition.

    Also, while no doubt some of the atrocities you've mentioned took place, as they do today where all men are free, but we will not dwell upon that, i'd also say that raped pregnant women can'tpick cotton, beaten to a bloody pulp slaves can't pick cotton, murdered slaves CAN'T PICK COTTON.

    You think slaves were cheap? Like say a dime a dozen? Slaves weren't treated like they should (read free men here) but to propagate a brutality so extreme that it would make the purpose of their servitude null and void is not only hyperbolic, but soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo unnecessary.
    Your message reads like a holocaust denier. The Nazis would not have starved, brutalized or murdered Jews because they were too valuable as slave labor. That's the logic you use to "prove" slaves were not brutalized. Raping slave women certainly is well documented - contrary to your opinion that rapists are driven by logic - and of course your disregarding the value of slave babies for sale and resale.

    I've only seen 1 place where slaves who "picked cotton" had actually been "housed." It was a thick, crude brick wall that used to be part of a shed for the slaves on one side of a field. The derrelict rusted iron shackles were still hanging from the wall.

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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Your message reads like a holocaust denier. The Nazis would not have starved, brutalized or murdered Jews because they were too valuable as slave labor. That's the logic you use to "prove" slaves were not brutalized. Raping slave women certainly is well documented - contrary to your opinion that rapists are driven by logic - and of course your disregarding the value of slave babies for sale and resale.

    I've only seen 1 place where slaves who "picked cotton" had actually been "housed." It was a thick, crude brick wall that used to be part of a shed for the slaves on one side of a field. The derrelict rusted iron shackles were still hanging from the wall.
    Oh dear God, so your response to my charge of hyperbole is more hyperbole?

    To you, I say good day...

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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Lol... Slavery was on its way out... yeah... as we all know that was the end of the bad treatment for blacks in the South. If anything, I'd say the U.S. South would have ended up like another Brazil. A white ruling elite with a disgustingly poor black population.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Oh dear God, so your response to my charge of hyperbole is more hyperbole?

    To you, I say good day...
    Your message is a concession.

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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lol... Slavery was on its way out... yeah... as we all know that was the end of the bad treatment for blacks in the South. If anything, I'd say the U.S. South would have ended up like another Brazil. A white ruling elite with a disgustingly poor black population.
    It did end up that way, and stayed that way for a while. A lot of the money in the south is "old" money...hard for an imported group of people to access that.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Was the civil war worth it all

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I'm glad you were given the final say on that...
    He wasn't interested in a conversation. He only wanted to post his opinion without any replies that might have been contrary to his. I also made one reply only to be rebuke as he basically said he didn't want to hear it. His opinion was the only one that counted. I replied, so be it.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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