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Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voting)

Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voting)

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Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Wiggen said:
My question is - how do you prove you are a citizen? Birth certificate - no. Lots of people born here are not citizens, and the reverse is true. Passport - not unless it was issued the day you intend to vote. Lots of people with U.S. Passports are no longer citizens. Naturalization papers? See passports. What about those naturalized citizens who change their minds and go back home? Driver's license? Laughable. Military ID? Lots of foreign nationals serve in the U.S. military.

Again - I'm all for proving citizenship if somebody can tell me how to do it conclusively. The operative word here is 'prove', not that you are 'likely' a citizen.

Of course we could always go for some sort of national identity card or even a 'citizenship chip'. I imagine those on the Right would love that.
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Can you name one person with a passport who is not a citizen?

As for people born here, yes, some people born here can choose not to be citizens--children of diplomats. Even the King of Thailand was born here. Lots, not likely.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

I know personally of people with U.S. passports who have renounced their citizenship. There are a whole bunch of guys in Canada to whom that was applicable not that many years ago. I have a good friend who was born here of German parents, has a U.S. passport, and has decided to retire to Germany and become a German citizen, which German law allows.

The operative word here is 'prove', not 'likely'. If you are going to deny somebody the right to vote then it would seem you ought to be very careful in the manner in which you disenfranchise them.

But if your point is that every voter ought to have a U.S. passport, then I think a lot of poor people might consider buying food to be a more pressing use of their dollars.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

rocket88 said:
I'm not the one bringing gun control into it at all. If you were disenfranchised, would you be OK with that?
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Originally Posted by rocket88

What about the hypocrisy of the right that calls needing ID to buy a gun an infringement, but needing ID to vote is fine.
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Did you write that?
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Wiggen said:
My question is - how do you prove you are a citizen? Birth certificate - no. Lots of people born here are not citizens, and the reverse is true. Passport - not unless it was issued the day you intend to vote. Lots of people with U.S. Passports are no longer citizens. Naturalization papers? See passports. What about those naturalized citizens who change their minds and go back home? Driver's license? Laughable. Military ID? Lots of foreign nationals serve in the U.S. military.

Again - I'm all for proving citizenship if somebody can tell me how to do it conclusively. The operative word here is 'prove', not that you are 'likely' a citizen.

Of course we could always go for some sort of national identity card or even a 'citizenship chip'. I imagine those on the Right would love that.
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Evidence of U.S. Citizenship
In general, you must provide your U.S. birth certificate or U.S. Passport. Other documents you may provide are a Consular Report of Birth, Certificate of Citizenship, or Certificate of Naturalization.

That is the govts standard of proof, so if you meet it, you have conclusively proved to the govt that you are a citizen.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Wiggen said:
I know personally of people with U.S. passports who have renounced their citizenship. There are a whole bunch of guys in Canada to whom that was applicable not that many years ago. I have a good friend who was born here of German parents, has a U.S. passport, and has decided to retire to Germany and become a German citizen, which German law allows.

The operative word here is 'prove', not 'likely'. If you are going to deny somebody the right to vote then it would seem you ought to be very careful in the manner in which you disenfranchise them.

But if your point is that every voter ought to have a U.S. passport, then I think a lot of poor people might consider buying food to be a more pressing use of their dollars.
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If they officially renounced, then they are not valid passports.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

jonny5 said:
Did you write that?
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I wrote it in response to somebody else, who brought gun control into it.

Since your right to vote is, according to you, not guaranteed in the Constitution, you are OK with being disenfranchised?
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

jonny5 said:
If they officially renounced, then they are not valid passports.
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So now, not just having a passport is enough. You want the election officials to check and make sure its a 'valid' passport. Got it.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

jonny5 said:
Evidence of U.S. Citizenship
In general, you must provide your U.S. birth certificate or U.S. Passport. Other documents you may provide are a Consular Report of Birth, Certificate of Citizenship, or Certificate of Naturalization.

That is the govts standard of proof, so if you meet it, you have conclusively proved to the govt that you are a citizen.
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Except you really haven't done so, have you? You've merely proven that you were born in the United States, had a certificate of citizenship at one time, or at one time was a naturalized citizen. None of that proves you are a citizen. I think the only answer is a citizen chip, installed at birth, and which explodes if you ever renounce your citizenship.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

i feel the same about this as i always do about about voter laws, mostly its a wast of time, a made up problem

BUT

i have zero problems with a voter id card under the following circumstances

if need be you can get one free
its easily and readily available from many locations including post offices, by mail and on line
if you dont have one many other forms of ID can also be used that are acceptable now for ID.

if it falls in this standards im all good with it
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

jonny5 said:
If they officially renounced, then they are not valid passports.
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Correct. It could also be asserted that since the passport wasn't returned that the citizenship wasn't actually renounced. Most people I would assume don't renounce their citizenship until they have a passport from another country.

As for non citizens who can get a passport: Certificates of Non Citizen Nationality

If the requirement to register to vote is a passport or a birth certificate then I think that is acceptable threshold for anyone to meet.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

OhIsee.Then said:
I recall a case where a birth certificate bound decades ago in a state owned and controlled book wasn't found sufficient to prove citizenship.
So again, what documents are sufficient to prove citizenship?
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A state issued ID, drivers license, passport, military ID, or any other government issued photo ID.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

rocket88 said:
I wrote it in response to somebody else, who brought gun control into it.

Since your right to vote is, according to you, not guaranteed in the Constitution, you are OK with being disenfranchised?
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So then I didnt bring guns into it, did I?

Now back to the subject, which was my rebuttal of your claim of hypocrasy. Since gun rights are in the constitution, and general voting rights arent, its not hypocritical to support IDs for one, and not for the other.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Wiggen said:
So now, not just having a passport is enough. You want the election officials to check and make sure its a 'valid' passport. Got it.
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Why not?
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Wiggen said:
Except you really haven't done so, have you? You've merely proven that you were born in the United States, had a certificate of citizenship at one time, or at one time was a naturalized citizen. None of that proves you are a citizen. I think the only answer is a citizen chip, installed at birth, and which explodes if you ever renounce your citizenship.
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Depends on how you define conclusive I guess. All we're intrested in here is how the law defines it.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Surtr said:
A state issued ID, drivers license, passport, military ID, or any other government issued photo ID.
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You dont have to prove citizenship to get an ID. So an ID doesnt prove citizenship.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

jonny5 said:
So then I didnt bring guns into it, did I?

Now back to the subject, which was my rebuttal of your claim of hypocrasy. Since gun rights are in the constitution, and general voting rights arent, its not hypocritical to support IDs for one, and not for the other.
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So since it's not mentioned in the Constitution, you wouldn't have a problem being disenfranchised, or would you?
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Surtr said:
A state issued ID, drivers license, passport, military ID, or any other government issued photo ID.
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Drivers license does not prove citizenship. You do not have to be a citizen to be licensed to operate a motor vehicle.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

jonny5 said:
Why not?
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Exactly how would they check that? Unless they have a computer at the polling place and a link to some kind of Department of State database...
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

jonny5 said:
Why not?
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And how in the hell do they do that? I can see the little old election clerk closely examining a passport to determine whether or not it's valid. And what does it prove? How does anybody know when somebody moves to another country and 'renounces' their citizenship? They probably don't take out ads in the newspaper when they do it, since nobody else gives a ratsass.

The Citizenship chip is the only answer, I think. It ought to satisfy even the most paranoid right winger.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

rocket88 said:
Exactly how would they check that? Unless they have a computer at the polling place and a link to some kind of Department of State database...
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And of course the Department of state would be just thrilled to spend all of their time validating every frickin' passport in order to determine its validity. Oh wait, maybe they have a database of 'invalid passports'.:lamo

Passports are used to travel between nations. They ought not to be a requirement to register to vote.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Surtr said:
A state issued ID, drivers license, passport, military ID, or any other government issued photo ID.
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I recall how through the state wasn’t when it issued my driver’s license with my photo on it.
What is the root document that proves my citizenship?
BTW, I got my US passport issued in Bangkok.
 
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Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

rocket88 said:
Drivers license does not prove citizenship. You do not have to be a citizen to be licensed to operate a motor vehicle.
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That's something that needs to change, since a DL is used as a primary means of identification.

OhIsee.Then said:
I recall how through the state wasn’t when it issued my driver’s license with my photo on it.
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When I got my first ID, I had to submit my birth certificate, social security card, fingerprints, and my mother had to be present to further confirm my identity. Even now, when I get a new DL, I have to give a fingerprint to ensure that I am who I say I am. Obviously, there needs to be a federal ID system, to ensure consistency.

What is the root document that proves my citizenship?
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There is none, multiple documents are required. Birth certificate, social security card, and other corroborating evidence of identification are necessary to prove identity and citizenship.

BTW, I got my US passport issued in Bangkok.
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From the US Embassy?
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

Many are still dancing around the original question of whether citizenship should be demonstrated at the time of registration. If that is the case, then the number of ID's that could be used at the time of actual voting can be much greater. Granny or anyone else has plenty of time to get the proper documents in order between elections.
 
Re: Should you prove you are a citizen when register to vote?(please read before voti

rocket88 said:
So since it's not mentioned in the Constitution, you wouldn't have a problem being disenfranchised, or would you?
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I take your dodging as a sign of your recognizing your wrong.
 
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