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Should childless couples be considered inferior?

Should childless couples be considered inferior?

  • Yes. Having children is a moral obligation to God/society/family/etc.

    Votes: 4 2.8%

  • No, they are free not to have children. They don't have to answer to anybody

    Votes: 105 74.5%

  • Not if they have reproductive problems.

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Yes, even if they have reproductive problems. They can adopt, you know.

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • They should get a medal for lowering world population.

    Votes: 20 14.2%

  • Other

    Votes: 9 6.4%

  • I don't know.

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Total voters
    141
loader said:
At least three families, childless couples I know, raising adopted children. Even my homosexuals neighbors are raising a girl for many years. Another familie of my age, raised three own children, and adopted two other children from Russia.
Сhildfree, is the pinnacle of selfishness. Or vice versa, cowardice. Know of, too. They live in the absence of love and the meaning of life.
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Geez, more NONSENSE, why does that not surprise me by now. Contrary to the silly "childfree is the pinnacle of selfishness" ideology you want everyone to believe, it is NOT "selfish" to refuse to reproduce.

In my experience, the only people who spout such foolishness are, more often than not, self-righteous parents who are physically, emotionally, and/or financially struggling with the demands of two or more kids. Not surprisingly, such parents are openly resentful of childfree women (and CF men too) because we DON'T have those struggles and are grateful not to have them. I ceased taking such snarky remarks personally a long time ago, as they simply aren't worth taking seriously.
 
Ocean007 said:
Assuming you are being serious instead of sarcastic, all of this is complete NONSENSE. The childfree (no kids by choice) decision is just as valid and responsible as the decision to become a parent.

Individuals (myself included) and couples who know they don't like or want children are making the wise and RESPONSIBLE decision not to have them. Too many people who have children for the wrong reasons -- like being shamed or guilted into having them instead of really WANTING to have them -- end up neglecting their kids or even worse, abusing them. It's cruel to put kids at risk of such treatment. One can't neglect or abuse what one doesn't have.
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Mind if I ask how old you are?

Reason being, I have a younger daughter who has said the same about having children for all of her adult life. Now that she's married and has become an Aunt of two, she's slowly changing her mind.
 
WCH said:
Mind if I ask how old you are?

Reason being, I have a younger daughter who has said the same about having children for all of her adult life. Now that she's married and has become an Aunt of two, she's slowly changing her mind.
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Another bingo I love. The "You don't know yourself, woman folk. Someday when you grow up and learn your place, you'll see things my way." It has a passive aggressive subtle twist, which is a nice touch. Clearly a veteran of the sport, here. I give it a 9.5 for style, 10 for patronizing tone, and 8.5 for subliminal fear of people (women?) breaking rank. Good showing.

And your daughter has what to do with Ocean exactly? You do know women are not all identical and many of us never do change our minds, right? That is, assuming this isn't simply your wishful thinking.
 
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SmokeAndMirrors said:
Another bingo I love. The "You don't know yourself, woman folk. Someday when you grow up and learn your place, you'll see things my way." It has a passive aggressive subtle twist, which is a nice touch. Clearly a veteran of the sport, here. I give it a 9.5 for style, 10 for patronizing tone, and 8.5 for subliminal fear of people (women?) breaking rank. Good showing.

And your daughter has what to do with Ocean exactly? You do know women are not all identical and many of us never do change our minds, right? That is, assuming this isn't simply your wishful thinking.
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I'll admit that young women (let's say all young people) are flighty as hell but, my inquiry was on the up and up. We never thought our youngest would EVER change her mind.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
You do know women are not all identical and many of us never do change our minds, right?
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And a great many of you do. Why is he wrong for noting that? Why are you right for ignoring that?
 
Years and years ago, I had a job at a large Pep Boys selling tires, performance stuff, inventory and some counter sales.
One day we got a new store manager. His first order of biz was to fire the cleaning staff.
Came out with a chart of our names on top and days of the week on the side.
His comment was "if you want to feed your kids, you will clean the toilets on your prescribed days".
I promptly told him I had no kids, was not going to have any and pretty much told him where he could stick his chart.
 
RiverDad said:
And a great many of you do. Why is he wrong for noting that? Why are you right for ignoring that?
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Since when am I doing any such thing?

He said something about his daughter, some stranger as far as Ocean is concerned, and then leaped to the conclusion that whatever his daughter thinks must somehow mean something about what Ocean will think.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Another bingo I love. The "You don't know yourself, woman folk. Someday when you grow up and learn your place, you'll see things my way." It has a passive aggressive subtle twist, which is a nice touch. Clearly a veteran of the sport, here. I give it a 9.5 for style, 10 for patronizing tone, and 8.5 for subliminal fear of people (women?) breaking rank. Good showing.

And your daughter has what to do with Ocean exactly? You do know women are not all identical and many of us never do change our minds, right? That is, assuming this isn't simply your wishful thinking.
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I do see WCH's point and I even asked Ocean the same question. Her response indicated that she's most likely (nothing's impossible) past the point where she would change her stance. But the younger she was the higher the probability that she could. A lot of young people take stances like Ocean does (not only on procreation) and then find later in life that there are circumstances that bring them into direct conflict with their earlier stance. Ocean rails against getting pregnant like a homophobe against gays. She doesn't just state that is what she desires. She goes all out and calls pregnancy a disease and burden, as if it were such to all women. When she does so she sounds extremely young and idealistic.

I really don't see saying "be careful how strong a stance you take there (doesn't have to be only about pregnancy), because the fall will be that much harder if/when you change" as being the same as "grow up and learn your place".

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Since when am I doing any such thing?

He said something about his daughter, some stranger as far as Ocean is concerned, and then leaped to the conclusion that whatever his daughter thinks must somehow mean something about what Ocean will think.
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I love you S&M, I really do, but I think you're reading a little too much into that. He used an example of someone who was as adamant about not having kids as Ocean seems to be and saying, "hey it happens"
 
maquiscat said:
I do see WCH's point and I even asked Ocean the same question. Her response indicated that she's most likely (nothing's impossible) past the point where she would change her stance. But the younger she was the higher the probability that she could. A lot of young people take stances like Ocean does (not only on procreation) and then find later in life that there are circumstances that bring them into direct conflict with their earlier stance. Ocean rails against getting pregnant like a homophobe against gays. She doesn't just state that is what she desires. She goes all out and calls pregnancy a disease and burden, as if it were such to all women. When she does so she sounds extremely young and idealistic.

I really don't see saying "be careful how strong a stance you take there (doesn't have to be only about pregnancy), because the fall will be that much harder if/when you change" as being the same as "grow up and learn your place".

I love you S&M, I really do, but I think you're reading a little too much into that. He used an example of someone who was as adamant about not having kids as Ocean seems to be and saying, "hey it happens"
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I get what you're saying, but this can just as easily be reversed. A lot of people want kids when they're younger, then realize what that implies when they get older and decide they'd rather not.

But for some reason, people only question how much you know yourself if you say you DON'T want kids.

The childfree come at all levels of intensity, just like parents. It means nothing about their commitment to their choice.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I get what you're saying, but this can just as easily be reversed. A lot of people want kids when they're younger, then realize what that implies when they get older and decide they'd rather not.
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You know, Saturn is a planet out in space but it doesn't have to be there, it could float in the Pacific Ocean. Or something. Just use your imagination.

This phenomenon which you say is easily reversed and forms the basis of your rebuttal - prove it. Show us where this "A lot of people" information comes from other than your imagination. I'm really curious to see how your world view is shaped - is it by analyzing the world or is your view of the world shaped by your imagination and anything you concoct in that imagination is now, to you, a real world phenomenon.
 
I havent read all 40 pages of course but id be MORE than willing to bet there wasnt one solid reason presented why they are inferior on any general level what so ever.
 
I contributed less to society since I treated all 130 of my Chem/Physics students as my own children for 35 years.
And I continue to do this with needy students in retirement.
And after doing this for so many years, private citizens have only "inferior" and "contribute less" to offer me on dp.
One Hundred years ago, Teachers were expected to act like Priests and not even date .
cpwill said:
:shrug: all things being equal they contribute less to society. "inferior" would be a word that would require qualifications, however.
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One hundred years ago and further, Teachers were expected to devote every waking hour to their students.
These women you ridicule taught generations of students the three R's .

Canell said:
In traditional societies, the answer is "hell yes". Spinsters and childless women were ridiculed, for example. ;)
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RiverDad said:
You know, Saturn is a planet out in space but it doesn't have to be there, it could float in the Pacific Ocean. Or something. Just use your imagination.

This phenomenon which you say is easily reversed and forms the basis of your rebuttal - prove it. Show us where this "A lot of people" information comes from other than your imagination. I'm really curious to see how your world view is shaped - is it by analyzing the world or is your view of the world shaped by your imagination and anything you concoct in that imagination is now, to you, a real world phenomenon.
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I am not aware of any studies of age of deciding to be childfree, but they aren't all early articulaters. Some I know didn't decide that until their 30s. Some just don't have kids by accident, and don't realize they enjoy the lifestyle itself until they're older.

I connect childfree people to reproductive resources, since they are routinely rejected for long term and permanent BC (so are some parents, and sometimes they contact me as well), so I know quite a few.

There's also a fair number of them on DP. Why don't you just try listening to them?

Everyone who is childfree decided some time, and there's millions of childfree people of all ages, including elderly.

And apparently, according to you, if they decide young, they'll give in to reproducing eventually, and people who decide older just don't exist. So where do you think they're all coming from? :lol:
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I am not aware of any studies of age of deciding to be childfree, but they aren't all early articulaters. Some I know didn't decide that until their 30s. Some just don't have kids by accident, and don't realize they enjoy the lifestyle itself until they're older.

I connect childfree people to reproductive resources, since they are routinely rejected for long term and permanent BC (so are some parents, and sometimes they contact me as well), so I know quite a few.

There's also a fair number of them on DP. Why don't you just try listening to them?

Everyone who is childfree decided some time, and there's millions of childfree people of all ages, including elderly.

And apparently, according to you, if they decide young, they'll give into it eventually, and people who decide older just don't exist. So where do you think they're all coming from? :lol:
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Couldn't you have saved some time for both of us and simply written "OK, you got me. I made it all up."
 
RiverDad said:
Couldn't you have saved some time for both of us and simply written "OK, you got me. I made it all up."
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Um... Childfree people exist, do they not? So one of your two conjectures must be wrong.

Based on meeting them, I think it's both. Like I said, you have childfree people of various ages in this thread. Ask us.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
I get what you're saying, but this can just as easily be reversed. A lot of people want kids when they're younger, then realize what that implies when they get older and decide they'd rather not.

But for some reason, people only question how much you know yourself if you say you DON'T want kids.

The childfree come at all levels of intensity, just like parents. It means nothing about their commitment to their choice.
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And we all have to pay the consequences of our decisions. We all make good and bad ones and have to live with them.

That's also part of life.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Um... Childfree people exist, do they not? So one of your two conjectures must be wrong.

Based on meeting them, I think it's both. Like I said, you have childfree people of various ages in this thread. Ask us.
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We decided in our late 20's. Never regretted it for a minute.

53 now.

Know what I think 'parents' hate the most about the child-free? We can take a nap anytime we feel like it! :)
 
Lursa said:
We decided in our late 20's. Never regretted it for a minute.

53 now.

Know what I think 'parents' hate the most about the child-free? We can take a nap anytime we feel like it! :)
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Yea, but we still have to take up the slack every time little johnny is sick and mommy and daddy cant come to work. Or little Angel gets in trouble in school so one of them has to leave early from work, leaving their work for everyone else to do.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yea, but we still have to take up the slack every time little johnny is sick and mommy and daddy cant come to work. Or little Angel gets in trouble in school so one of them has to leave early from work, leaving their work for everyone else to do.
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One of my previous jobs, the people with kids got preference over days off, esp. weekends over the single people. It sucked. I wanted to show my horse on weekends...but no, divorced daddy had his kids and had to have off. BS.
 
Lursa said:
One of my previous jobs, the people with kids got preference over days off, esp. weekends over the single people. It sucked. I wanted to show my horse on weekends...but no, divorced daddy had his kids and had to have off. BS.
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That indentured servitude must have been a horrible experience. Too bad you weren't a free person and could have quit your job.
 
What kind of a sick poll is this??????????
 
RiverDad said:
That indentured servitude must have been a horrible experience. Too bad you weren't a free person and could have quit your job.
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I got more seniority. And then I did.

Did that make it right?

It was in the mid-80s, it wouldnt even be acceptable today and I would have an HR dept to take a grievance to. It was a city job.
 
Lursa said:
I got more seniority. And then I did.

Did that make it right?

It was in the mid-80s, it wouldnt even be acceptable today and I would have an HR dept to take a grievance to. It was a city job.
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Sure it made it right. The way society is structured it really screws parents - society privatizes the costs of raising the kids onto parents but then socializes the economic benefits produced by the kids - those kids grow up to pay taxes which benefit other people more than their own parents. That's just obscene. So any efforts society makes to tilt the balance back towards parents is justified.

Remove welfare redistribution from society and then your case becomes stronger. As it stands, other people's kids are going to be paying for your care in old age.
 
RiverDad said:
Sure it made it right. The way society is structured it really screws parents - society privatizes the costs of raising the kids onto parents but then socializes the economic benefits produced by the kids - those kids grow up to pay taxes which benefit other people more than their own parents. That's just obscene. So any efforts society makes to tilt the balance back towards parents is justified.

Remove welfare redistribution from society and then your case becomes stronger. As it stands, other people's kids are going to be paying for your care in old age.
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That has nothing to do with having weekends off. If you dont want to make sacrifices for your kids, dont have 'em.


I pay taxes too...for schools and other entitlements, for kids I dont have. So? That also sucks.

At least parents have a CHOICE...if they dont like the cost of raising kids, they can minimize that and not have any...and just join the rest of us having our tax dollars sucked from us.
 
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