View Poll Results: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

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  • Yes. Having children is a moral obligation to God/society/family/etc.

    9 3.93%
  • No, they are free not to have children. They don't have to answer to anybody

    161 70.31%
  • Not if they have reproductive problems.

    2 0.87%
  • Yes, even if they have reproductive problems. They can adopt, you know.

    1 0.44%
  • They should get a medal for lowering world population.

    44 19.21%
  • Other

    10 4.37%
  • I don't know.

    2 0.87%
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Thread: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

  1. #491
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    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Whenever we study humans and their behaviors, psychology and sociology must account for the genetic confounds as they seek to understand the behavioral issues. Psychology is beginning to do this now, but most of sociology is still in witch-doctor mode and who trusts a witch doctor when he says anything. Sociology is built on the basis of environmental determinism, a false belief that 100% of behavior arises from environmental/cultural factors or individual choice. If they don't even bother to look at biology then they're willfully blinding themselves, which means that everything a sociologist tells you is likely inaccurate.
    Decent sociology largely doesn't try to pin its conclusions to any particular thing, because it is clear that so much of human behavior is more convoluted due to our intellects, and thus biology has no answers, and neither does sociology itself as of yet. We may find an answer, and it may even be biological, but it isn't presently explained by basic survival theory. There's just too much we do that is either constantly changing, completely opposite from one place to the next, doesn't offer any survival benefit whatsoever, or all of the above.

    So I don't think you actually understand what sociology is.

  2. #492
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Art doesn't always communicate. So, wrong. Risk is not always for the thrill. For example, it probably is if it's easy to do like skydiving, but learning to be shot into space takes so many years or decades that anyone who does it has a different motivation -- probably just curiosity and want for knowledge, however pointless it is. So, wrong.

    Not even close. Even the other highly intelligent species -- none of whom come close to us -- are not that simple. You don't seem to know anything about human behavior.
    Of course art is communication, what's wrong with you?


    Risk doesn't always have to be for the thrill nor did I say that. In your previous post you seemed to be listing what you thought of as non-survival behavior and I addressed that part of risky behavior. I just assumed (apparently an incorrect assumption) that you would see the obvious advantages of explorer types in the human population, so I felt no need to explain that side of risky behavior.



    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    "Uh-huh because I said" so doesn't work with me. So I consider the next point and the last one, for that matter, untouched.
    If you're talking about humans being transcendental/metaphysical you are more than welcome to attempt to prove that case - and good luck doing so. I've yet to see proof of spirits, souls, ghosts, or any other metaphysical crap. That ball is completely in your court to prove, not mine to disprove.



    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    The fact that you didn't consider whether the person you were reading knew a single damn thing about what he was talking about is exactly the problem.

    Yes, I'm aware of that, but we have no alternate words for the concept, so can you just address it please? Ok, I guess not. That was easy.
    He knows a great deal about biology and animal behavior, which is what his science books are about. Sorry you don't see the connection between biology and sociology. Good sociologists don't seem to have a problem connecting those dots.


    What word? Altruism? Too much ignorant, historical baggage associated with that term. I've already explained what the behavior that's mistaken for altruism is and you seemed to ignore it, which isn't surprising because it weakens your case.
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  3. #493
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    We may find an answer, and it may even be biological, but it isn't presently explained by basic survival theory.
    "Survival theory"? If that's the buzz-phrase in sociological circles I can understand their problem.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  4. #494
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    ...The members of bigger, stronger tribes are more likely to survive.

    There are "winners" and "losers" - the genes that continue through to the next generation are the winners.

    You are not being fair. We are all winners, we don't keep score.

    From the PC dictionary.

    Loser - uniquely fortuned individual on an alternative career path.
    - 2nd place

  5. #495
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    "Survival theory"? If that's the buzz-phrase in sociological circles I can understand their problem.
    No, just a simple summary of the concepts at hand, which are neither part of real biology, nor part of sociology. They are the pop culture nonsense of people who understand neither.

  6. #496
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No, just a simple summary of the concepts at hand, which are neither part of real biology, nor part of sociology. They are the pop culture nonsense of people who understand neither.
    I have no idea what you're referring to with "the concepts at hand", then. If you've somehow pigeon-holed my comments into that phrase then we obviously have a gross miscommunication or you have a very poor understanding of evolution.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 03-24-14 at 04:48 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #497
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    all things being equal they contribute less to society. "inferior" would be a word that would require qualifications, however.
    I contributed less to society since I treated all 130 of my Chem/Physics students as my own children for 35 years.
    And I continue to do this with needy students in retirement.
    And after doing this for so many years, private citizens have only "inferior" and "contribute less" to offer me on dp.
    One Hundred years ago, Teachers were expected to act like Priests and not even date .

    Wait. You taught 35 years of chemistry and physics, and yet lack the mathematical acumen to comprehend the meaning of the phrase phrase "All things being equal"?



    ...Well. One more vote for spending the money on private school, I suppose.

  8. #498
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I have no idea what you're referring to with "the concepts at hand", then. If you've somehow pigeon-holed my comments into that phrase then we obviously have a gross miscommunication or you have a very poor understanding of evolution.
    I get the feeling she's a Diamond fan

  9. #499
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Pfffffft. Cant wait for you kids to grow up, I will put them to work.
    I have no intention of waiting that long - I am having them start to learn good work habits at about age 4, when they first start getting basic chores, and earn points (later redeemable for dollars) for doing so.

  10. #500
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I think it's time for you to find a new schtick, CP. You've tried the "maybe if I patronize them hard enough no one will notice I lost" thing on an awful lot of people, and it's almost invariably gone badly for you. The walloping you got when you tried it in Jetboogie was hysterical.
    Now that's interesting. You deliberately warp the position of those you disagree with to present them as some kind of 2-D cartoon character, apparently confidently assuming that you understand what we believe far better than we could, and then try (and fail) to back it with data that is half a century out of date, and yet try to accuse others of being patronizing.

    When you are ready to debate people rather than strawmen in this discussion, you're going to be a lot more effective. As for JB if you could link that, I'd appreciate - I'm in the process of dramatically cutting down DP time, and it's quite possible I simply never got back to the thread.

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