View Poll Results: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

Voters
229. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. Having children is a moral obligation to God/society/family/etc.

    9 3.93%
  • No, they are free not to have children. They don't have to answer to anybody

    161 70.31%
  • Not if they have reproductive problems.

    2 0.87%
  • Yes, even if they have reproductive problems. They can adopt, you know.

    1 0.44%
  • They should get a medal for lowering world population.

    44 19.21%
  • Other

    10 4.37%
  • I don't know.

    2 0.87%
Page 35 of 53 FirstFirst ... 25333435363745 ... LastLast
Results 341 to 350 of 522

Thread: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

  1. #341
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,160

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    My dogs are never allowed in the house and still they are well cared for. The only animals inside my house are called dinner.

    ...Well, I should day that I do let one dog sleep in a bathroom once a year on the fourth of July because she is really disturbed by all of the fireworks, so I wonder if proves I have at least some "empathetic development"? But then the bathroom has to be sanitized, so not that dog has any empathy for the extra work that is for me?

    So basically you believe that your love for your dog is equal to my love for my child?

    Okay this:

    Your dog, you, myself, and my child are adrift in a lifeboat. After a week at sea I kill your dog for food to feed to my starving child even under your protests. After we are rescued you accuse me of murdering your dog, but no court in the world will hear your case. At the very most I owe you an amount of money equal to the value of your dog.

    Now same situation but this time you try to kill my child to feed to your starving dog and in the process I kill you to protect my child. There is no court on the planet that would call me murderer for protecting my child.


    So my question is:

    Which love is justified and which one isn't?
    Yes, I do think that's rather sad. Like people, physical condition is not the only measure of care.

    I have a cat, actually. And my personal experience of love is that no two are alike, and that I have for animals is very different in nature. What "category" a love falls into (romantic, platonic, familial, etc) doesn't seem to have any impact on how strong it will be, for me. My top three loves all come from different "categories."

    My point is that I don't see any evidence that parental love is "superior." There are a great many parents who don't seem to love their children very much, if at all.

    What courts would do proves nothing except one society's take on animals. In India, there was a time when killing a cow could be punished by having your hands cut off. In Janism, even the killing of insects is quite serious.

    "Justified"? If you believe love needs to be "justified," then you don't understand the concept well enough for us to be having this conversation.

  2. #342
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    So basically you believe that your love for your dog is equal to my love for my child?
    In the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, while there were people suffering in the Superdome and roaming in the debris of New Orleans and not yet evacuated, fanatic animal lovers rented a bus and sent it into New Orleans, not to take survivors out of the hell zone, but to rescue dogs and get them out. Some people are really screwed up.

  3. #343
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    06-24-16 @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,073

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    In the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, while there were people suffering in the Superdome and roaming in the debris of New Orleans and not yet evacuated, fanatic animal lovers rented a bus and sent it into New Orleans, not to take survivors out of the hell zone, but to rescue dogs and get them out. Some people are really screwed up.
    Yep, even Charles Manson loved animals more than people. Another guy too, but I don't want to break Godwin's law.

  4. #344
    Sage
    RiverDad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    04-20-14 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,039

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    Yep, even Charles Manson loved animals more than people. Another guy too, but I don't want to break Godwin's law.
    From the Los Angeles Times, Sept 1. 2005:


  5. #345
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    06-24-16 @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,073

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    My point is that I don't see any evidence that parental love is "superior." There are a great many parents who don't seem to love their children very much, if at all.
    Are you able to comment on the great many of parents who do love their children? Parents who make great sacrifices for their children from every nation and every walk of life? You like to speak of "evidence" all of the time, are you claiming that you have never observed parents loving their children? Are you sure you are taking a large enough test sample for the conclusion which you have reached?


    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    What courts would do proves nothing except one society's take on animals. In India, there was a time when killing a cow could be punished by having your hands cut off.
    There was also a time in India not too long ago where it was acceptable to set your wife on fire if you wanted to be done with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    In Janism, even the killing of insects is quite serious.
    And of course in Janism they are leading the rest of the world in a cure for cancer and feeding starving people.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    "Justified"? If you believe love needs to be "justified," then you don't understand the concept well enough for us to be having this conversation.
    You missed the point. Pragmatism was the justifier used in my illustration which allowed me to eat the dog. It was also the justifier that permitted me to kill the person attempting to eat my child. Locke called this a natural right.

  6. #346
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,160

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    Are you able to comment on the great many of parents who do love their children? Parents who make great sacrifices for their children from every nation and every walk of life? You like to speak of "evidence" all of the time, are you claiming that you have never observed parents loving their children? Are you sure you are taking a large enough test sample for the conclusion which you have reached?

    There was also a time in India not too long ago where it was acceptable to set your wife on fire if you wanted to be done with her.

    And of course in Janism they are leading the rest of the world in a cure for cancer and feeding starving people.

    You missed the point. Pragmatism was the justifier used in my illustration which allowed me to eat the dog. It was also the justifier that permitted me to kill the person attempting to eat my child. Locke called this a natural right.
    There are people who do all the same things for people who aren't their children.

    I haven't reached any conclusion except that I don't see how parental love is superior. I see all the same range in parental love that I do in every other kind of love.

    And America hung black people for looking at whites funny not all that long ago. What's your point?

    You know who else isn't leading in a cure for cancer and feeding starving people? People who believe reproduction is the the only important contribution to society.

    The right of self defense to applies to anything, whether it is human, another animal, or inanimate. As far as which love is worth "more," that is not subject to pragmatism. That is a subjective judgment. And in your case, a judgment you've made to give yourself a false sense of superiority, despite showing an obvious empathetic deficit, simply for doing the same thing that any animal with gonads can do.

  7. #347
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    06-24-16 @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,073

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I haven't reached any conclusion except that I don't see how parental love is superior. I see all the same range in parental love that I do in every other kind of love.
    I saw a documentary on Japanese men who collect lifelike female dolls, some of them even admitted that they loved their dolls the same as other men love real women. Based on your wide ranging spectrum of "every other kind of love" would you say that the "love" these men feel for their dolls is equal to what your love for your cat is?

  8. #348
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,160

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    I saw a documentary on Japanese men who collect lifelike female dolls, some of them even admitted that they loved their dolls the same as other men love real women. Based on your wide ranging spectrum of "every other kind of love" would you say that the "love" these men feel for their dolls is equal to what your love for your cat is?
    I don't know. After all, what compels people to die simply for principles for love of humanity itself? Principles don't have any physical form at all.

    I would argue it isn't healthy, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. Love isn't always healthy.

    There is nuance in the world. You seem to not notice that.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 03-17-14 at 04:04 AM.

  9. #349
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    06-24-16 @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,073

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I don't know. After all, what compels people to die simply for principles for love of humanity itself? Principles don't have any physical form at all.

    I would argue it isn't healthy, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. Love isn't always healthy.

    There is nuance in the world. You seem to not notice that.
    You don't know? Is that your final answer to the question of whether a man's self described love for an inanimate object is equal to love you described for your pet cat? I suppose then you don't know if my love for my children is more important than this man's love for his sex doll? Which I guess means that if crazy sex doll guy's house is on fire and your house is on fire right next door, and he only has time to save his sex doll and not your cat or even someone else's child... I guess that is okay with you?

    Really, is that your final answer? Or is there too much nuance in letting a living human die to save a doll?

  10. #350
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,160

    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    You don't know? Is that your final answer to the question of whether a man's self described love for an inanimate object is equal to love you described for your pet cat? I suppose then you don't know if my love for my children is more important than this man's love for his sex doll? Which I guess means that if crazy sex doll guy's house is on fire and your house is on fire right next door, and he only has time to save his sex doll and not your cat or even someone else's child... I guess that is okay with you?

    Really, is that your final answer? Or is there too much nuance in letting a living human die to save a doll?
    I'm not in their head.

    Love is feeling, dude. People can feel things towards anything or anyone. Of far more consequence is what they do with it.

    Would it be different if it was his actual live girlfriend versus my cat or another person I love? I'd still not be happy about the fact that my loved one wasn't saved. Who took their spot on the lifeboat, so to speak, or even if no one did, wouldn't make any difference.

    Let's think about something else. Let's say you have some rare antique artifact. People have such things, and often they say they love them. They spend hours, perhaps daily, maintaining or restoring them. Their sense of loss if they are stolen or destroyed is quite real -- perhaps even mournful.

    We regard that as, well, a little reclusive, but not as absurd as loving a sex doll. Why not? Does it make any difference? No. We're just really weird about sex, that's all. That's why you chose that example, for the pearl-clutching effect it has on people like you, which you wrongly assumed I am.

    Like I said, I don't think replacing live beings with inanimate objects is healthy -- be they sex dolls or antique artifacts -- and psychology agrees with me. We're social creatures and we need social contact. However, that says nothing about the realness of their feelings.

    Feelings are just feelings.

    You're the one who keeps attempting to use your subjective feelings to put people and other creatures into some kind of hierarchy of worth and declaring everyone else's feelings but yours invalid.

    I don't happen to think subjective feelings are a good enough barometer to judge worth to begin with.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 03-17-14 at 04:35 AM.

Page 35 of 53 FirstFirst ... 25333435363745 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •