View Poll Results: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

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  • Yes. Having children is a moral obligation to God/society/family/etc.

    9 3.93%
  • No, they are free not to have children. They don't have to answer to anybody

    161 70.31%
  • Not if they have reproductive problems.

    2 0.87%
  • Yes, even if they have reproductive problems. They can adopt, you know.

    1 0.44%
  • They should get a medal for lowering world population.

    44 19.21%
  • Other

    10 4.37%
  • I don't know.

    2 0.87%
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Thread: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

  1. #161
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Many couples don't have children for various reasons. Should they be considered inferior in society?
    No. If anything they contribute more by not giving society more mouths to feed with tax money. It's all good and fine for people who can afford their decision, but for those who can't, children are a burden and a drain on society.
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    Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Society is comprised of people.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    Society is comprised of people.
    Yes, people who do things. If no one does anything, there's really not any society. So I still fail to understand how one argues that people are worth less despite doing more things simply because they haven't made more people.

  4. #164
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    People who have families don't do anything?
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    People who have families don't do anything?
    They do more of one thing, and less of other things. There's only so many hours in a day, and they have partioned X amount of theirs that a childfree person has not.

    Also, people with children are not the only kind of "family."

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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    Society is comprised of people.
    At 311 million, I'd say we have more than enough people at this time. Kids these days don't even have ethics and morals indoctrinated into them, and they don't understand the satisfaction of work. They sit around and watch tv, or play video games, and have everything handed to them on a silver platter. They learn crap habits from the disturbing lack of parenting that has been plaguing this country for quite a while now, and grow into worthless adults who contribute only to themselves.

    These newer apathetic and entitled generations are going to cripple our society, not strengthen it.
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  7. #167
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    I don't use a capitalistic theory of society to determine a person's worth to me, I value people regardless of what they may have done for me or society. Even the meanest criminal or completely handicapped person, unable even to communicate with others, has value as a child of God.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    I don't use a capitalistic theory of society to determine a person's worth to me, I value people regardless of what they may have done for me or society. Even the meanest criminal or completely handicapped person, unable even to communicate with others, has value as a child of God.
    The problem is not in whether or not they have value as a child of God, but whether or not we can afford them. It's all fine and good to claim that people have value, and imo, they do intrinsically, but intrinsic value doesn't create a stable society that is sustainable, and where the rubber meets the road, it's meaningless if we can't sustain our society.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    I don't use a capitalistic theory of society to determine a person's worth to me, I value people regardless of what they may have done for me or society. Even the meanest criminal or completely handicapped person, unable even to communicate with others, has value as a child of God.
    I don't estimate worth on income either. A lot of the most dedicated people make beans.

    But you're the one implying the childless/childfree have less value.

  10. #170
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    My goodness. Can you read?

    Yes, we can, because the childfree is one thing, and the childless are everything else.
    Well then that is a fascinating claim. I would love to see you statistically break down between the "childfree" and "childless" by productivity; especially given the heavy shifting between the two camps even as you describe them.

    Instead what you seem to have provided thus far is A) the claim that the two groups are distinct by intent (which is possible) and B) your unsubstantiated belief that the child-free are inherently more productive than the childless.

    I'm sorry, but a lot of these kids just aren't that special
    On the contrary, an adult citizen is a fairly valuable thing. Interestingly enough, one useful metric here comes out of the medical fields. Standford Researchers say that the value of a year of life is $129,000. The British Transport Department says it's 30,000 GBP (about $45,000). Split the difference for $87,000 and multiply by the (say) roughly 55 years that a 22 year old college graduate can then expect to live once he or she has left his parents' protective wings and you get a rough worth of an adult raised citizen of $4,785,000. Heck, the low-ball estimate is still the value of a raised child at $2,475,000.

    And while any individual child may be above or below that particular financial value to society, as a group they remain absolutely critical, and it remains absolutely critical that they exist in certain numbers. Societies that slip below replacement fertility rates slowly die. Or, sometimes, not so slowly. The point remains - raising a child produces a public good (a productive citizen) at private expense. Provision of a public good compared solely to its' lack is a relatively higher level of social benefit.

    certainly nowhere near special enough to even begin to cancel out the worth of a lot of careers of childfree people I know.
    some, perhaps. However, I would be willing to bet, given the lower average lifetime productivity of those who fail to form families and produce offspring, that the careers of the childfree do not in aggregate top those of parents greater than the benefit of raised children. Some of the childfree may indeed dedicate their lives to others. In which case (again) they are replicating the decision of parents, not surpassing them.

    You have yet to give me any kind of reasoning why you think popping out yet another is one is so incredibly beneficial.
    The average citizen is net beneficial to society. Otherwise we would not be a society.

    No, they are most certainly not replicating parents.
    They certainly are. Devotion of much of ones' life to the service of others is precisely the parental role. To put this into the same terms as you have used, my unmarried / childless buddies spend lots of time playing video games (spending time on ones'self). I spend lots of time playing with or teaching my children (spending time on others). They spend their money on themselves. I spend mine on providing for my kids.

    Their world is much bigger.


    All I can think when I read this is the SouthPark episode about College Know It All Hippies. "their world is much bigger"

    Give me some kind of evidence that the net effect of all these kids is positive no matter what, because I don't believe it for a second.
    see above. The Malthusian argument that additional citizens represent a net drain on a society has been disproven constantly since he made it.

    Ask yourself the questions - do you intend to receive Social Security and Medicare benefits in your life? What generation do you suppose is going to pay for them? Are you bearing the burden of raising that generation? I'm willing to bet that the answers are yes, the ones behind you, and no.

    I live in a world full of other people's kids -- I am one myself -- and let me tell you, an awful lot of them are not very useful. An awful lot of them 10 years my senior have yet to pay all these taxes your so damn worried about
    FICA?

    Your book has no validity if it doesn't separate out the childfree, which as I already demonstrated, is a recognized group that is different from the childless.
    You have argued for a distinction without a difference, as you cannot demonstrate a difference in the relative productivities of the classes you have argued for.

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