View Poll Results: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

Voters
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  • Yes. Having children is a moral obligation to God/society/family/etc.

    9 3.93%
  • No, they are free not to have children. They don't have to answer to anybody

    161 70.31%
  • Not if they have reproductive problems.

    2 0.87%
  • Yes, even if they have reproductive problems. They can adopt, you know.

    1 0.44%
  • They should get a medal for lowering world population.

    44 19.21%
  • Other

    10 4.37%
  • I don't know.

    2 0.87%
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Thread: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Why? Those people who don't put their time into children may have a lot more time to... ya know... do something important to humanity, perhaps.
    Perhaps. But not statistically. Interestingly, especially among men, quite the opposite occurs - those who do not marry and raise no children tend to make less than those who do. Charles Murray has done some rather fascinating research on this. It seems having a family to support is a powerful motivator for self-improvement.

  2. #112
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Perhaps. But not statistically. Interestingly, especially among men, quite the opposite occurs - those who do not marry and raise no children tend to make less than those who do. Charles Murray has done some rather fascinating research on this. It seems having a family to support is a powerful motivator for self-improvement.
    I'm sorry, but the title is instantly blood-curdling. Not to mention what summaries I can find about point to it being yet another black and white thinking practice in poking the red line of eugenics and egoism.

    Also, I must make a very important point: there is a HUGE difference between the childfree and the childless.

    Childfree people decide not to have children, for whatever reason. Sometimes it's purely practical, sometimes it's a true lack of desire to parent.

    Childless couples are different. They may just not have children YET. They may be infertile, which can be hugely expensive and stressful on a relationship. They may have simply missed their opportunity.

    It is important to distinguish them, because they are very different in terms of socio-economics.

    Childfree people actually tend to have more education and better careers. Like I said, I see a lot of them in socially contributory careers.

    Childless people have a lot more stress, and sometimes a lot less money due to attempts to remedy their childlessness, or resultant divorce over the strain.

    The two cannot and should not be lumped together.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 03-18-13 at 09:58 AM.

  3. #113
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    There's the problem. You feel responsible to your ancestors. I'm sorry, but they're dead. They won't notice whether you do or don't have kids. Life is only about doing what makes you happy.
    Here's the hole in your theory. You don't give a **** about people doing whta makes them happy, you give a **** about people doing what makes them happy as long as it fits in your world view that anyone believing anything beyond the evident is an idiot worthy of ridicule.

    You suggest people should do what "makes them happy", yet watch your socrn for the religious. you suggest people wshould do what make sthem happy, yet you suggest Viktyr has a problem when it is rather apparent from his writing that what would bring happiness to him is a belief within himself of fulfilling a purpose and unspoken promise to those who came before him to allow in his mind their words, teachings, and beliefs to live on through yet another generation. But you have utter disdain for that view point or those that hold it, so decry him as "having a problem" and belittle his view while acting like you're so much more enlightened by telling him to do whta "makes him happy" as you sit there trashing that very thing.

  4. #114
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Perhaps. But not statistically. Interestingly, especially among men, quite the opposite occurs - those who do not marry and raise no children tend to make less than those who do. Charles Murray has done some rather fascinating research on this. It seems having a family to support is a powerful motivator for self-improvement.
    Writing an opinion book is not exactly what I would call research, as in it is not scholarly, peer reviewed or really subject to any kind of scrutiny or scientific method.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #115
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    No, I don't think childless couples should be considered "inferior" or even scorned or degraded by society. To be frank, there are numerous couples I've known or read about that would likely have been a boon to society had they NOT had children. Kori is correct in terms of passing on a lineage...the issue is that quite frankly, there's some lineages that don't need passing down in terms of parenting skills and styles.

    Ultimately, it's an individual/couple choice based on what their views and thoughts are on the subject. For my wife and I, at this point I wouldn't mind a kid (Though know now may not be the best time) and she doesn't. In part due to her past family life, and in part because she's still feeling "young" and enjoying the bit of freedom. However, a few years from now that may change...or it may not. I understand kori's point, because there's a part of me that views it that way for myself. On the other hand, I get the notion of desiring that bit of freedom and a chance to "experience life" a bit first others are arguing for.

    We're no longer a society that needs everyone pumping out a family to survive, so the notion of having children being some requirement for a "Worth while" couple is an outdated one in my mind in a societal view. But it's still perfectly understandable on a personal level.

  6. #116
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Writing an opinion book is not exactly what I would call research, as in it is not scholarly, peer reviewed or really subject to any kind of scrutiny or scientific method.
    Ad Sourcinem by Redress, who didn't read the source critiqued and cannot answer it. Everyone pretend to be surprised .

  7. #117
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ad Sourcinem by Redress, who didn't read the source critiqued and cannot answer it. Everyone pretend to be surprised .
    There's a reason Ad Sourcinem isn't a real fallacy. I'll let you figure out why.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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  8. #118
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I'm sorry, but the title is instantly blood-curdling. Not to mention what summaries I can find about point to it being yet another black and white thinking practice in poking the red line of eugenics and egoism.


    No. The reason that Murray wrote explicitly about the statistics among white Americans was because minorities have a heavier portion of their populace in the ranks of the poor - when Murray wrote earlier about social breakup and the economic results he was accused of being racist because - surprise! - it turned out a greater portion of blacks were poor. This book was written to demonstrate the consistency of the relationships demonstrated across all racial lines, first by teasing out the white numbers, and then by demonstrating how they match the causal relationships in the black and hispanic communities.

    Or, you could pull an ad hominem. That seems to work, too.

    Also, I must make a very important point: there is a HUGE difference between the childfree and the childless.
    Not as far as it impacts society. The two are - in their effects - the same. Both represent people who have not born the cost of raising the next generation of producers upon whom they will depend.

  9. #119
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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    There's a reason Ad Sourcinem isn't a real fallacy. I'll let you figure out why.
    It's a form of ad hominem, baron. I'll give you a minute to figure out that Charles Murray is a person.

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    Re: Should childless couples be considered inferior?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ad Sourcinem by Redress, who didn't read the source critiqued and cannot answer it. Everyone pretend to be surprised .
    So I should ignore the fact you made it a point to hide the fact you where linking to an amazon add for a book and not actual research? It's my fault you cannot prove your claims, yeah, that's it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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