View Poll Results: Against SSM? If family member came out to you, would you change your mind?

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  • No, never.

    10 29.41%
  • No, but possibly at some point.

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  • Yes.

    4 11.76%
  • I have gay family member(s), I'm still against SSM

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Thread: Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

  1. #81
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Perhaps, and depending on the situation, however as Portman is a Senator I'm going to take a really dangerous leap and guess he ran on a platform of representing the people of his state. Fair assumption or not? If so, then this story makes him a hypocrite at best and a liar at worst because it demonstrates that he wasn't representing the people of his state, just himself and his immediate family. It proves he's lacking in compassion as otherwise it wouldn't have required a family member coming out for him to say, "Whoah! Nobody told me homos were human!" Why couldn't he have recognized the reality of that, his constituents being real people to begin with?
    Yeah and I mean, who gets represented in that equation anyway? There are surely gay voters in every state who would like to marry. Ultimately we should expect elected officials to lead, especially when it comes to civil rights. Otherwise, the "fine people of Mississippi" will not have a senator taking a stance like this until around 2313.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    In light of Rob Portman's change of heart regarding gay marriage, if your son/daughter/brother/sister came to you and told you they were gay, would you, could you see yourself changing your stance?
    If a person changes their mind because their kid "comes out of the closet", then what does that say about YOU and your ability to weigh the various sides of complex issues?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm really surprised. Not what I would have expected you to say from your interactions on this forum. Just from that statement, it would seem to me that you think you'd be embarrassed to have them at certain family gatherings. You don't strike me as the type of person who cares what anyone thinks. (In a good way, not a bad one.) Interesting.
    Everybody cares what others think, bar none, to some degree. Some just play it off better.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    But hasn't it become inextricably intertwined with law whether we want to define it that way or not? I mean, what about the tax benefits associated with marriage? What about divorce proceedings, authority to make medical decisions on behalf of your SO in life-threatening crises, custody disputes in the case of children etc etc. If we're going to have a legal system that handles that kinds of things, a legal system that acknowledges the existence of marriage, then we at some point we need to define "marriage" legally.

    I think saying marriage should only be a private spiritual relationship with no governmental recognition whatsoever overlooks the reality of the situation.



    Agreed. I actually think gay marriage is a hugely overblown political issue that shouldn't be receiving a level of coverage on par with other major political issues like economic policy , foreign policy etc.
    At the federal level the main issue is one of taxes and I foresee that going away in the not too distant future. Karen Hawkins, the IRS director for the Office of Professional Responsibility came out last year and suggested that a conflict of interest may exist for tax professionals who prepare MFJ returns. The assumption is that there is a risk that one spouse will have coerced the other into going along with something or withheld information from the other or will be the sole party in the relationship that is providing information to the preparer. In 2011 they took the first step in this matter by requiring paid preparers to obtain separate disclosure authorizations for both parties on a joint return and I suspect that it will be only a matter of time before filing a joint return is a thing of the past.

  5. #85
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    At the federal level the main issue is one of taxes and I foresee that going away in the not too distant future. Karen Hawkins, the IRS director for the Office of Professional Responsibility came out last year and suggested that a conflict of interest may exist for tax professionals who prepare MFJ returns. The assumption is that there is a risk that one spouse will have coerced the other into going along with something or withheld information from the other or will be the sole party in the relationship that is providing information to the preparer. In 2011 they took the first step in this matter by requiring paid preparers to obtain separate disclosure authorizations for both parties on a joint return and I suspect that it will be only a matter of time before filing a joint return is a thing of the past.
    I consider the taxes issue to be the smallest problem and the easiest one to solve, as you suggested, by simply eliminating joint filing.

    What about all the other issues I mentioned? Custody battles, visitation rights, property disputes in the event of an unexpected death of a SO, authority for medical decisions etc. Until someone can offer a better solution for handling this kind of disputes than allowing government courts to act as arbitrator, I have a hard time taking seriously the suggestion that government shouldn't recognize or be involved in marriage at all.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I agree. The USSC should rule for or against it based on the will of the people as it was recorded into law during the various times of the signing and amending of the US Constitution.
    What do you mean by that? That's a very ambiguous statement.

  7. #87
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    I consider the taxes issue to be the smallest problem and the easiest one to solve, as you suggested, by simply eliminating joint filing.

    What about all the other issues I mentioned? Custody battles, visitation rights, property disputes in the event of an unexpected death of a SO, authority for medical decisions etc. Until someone can offer a better solution for handling this kind of disputes than allowing government courts to act as arbitrator, I have a hard time taking seriously the suggestion that government shouldn't recognize or be involved in marriage at all.
    Those are state level issues and they won't go away whether gay marriage is legalized or not. If you think, for example, that custody issues between a married hetero (in the process of divorce) couple is a walk in the park then you are sadly mistaken.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Perhaps, and depending on the situation, however as Portman is a Senator I'm going to take a really dangerous leap and guess he ran on a platform of representing the people of his state. Fair assumption or not? If so, then this story makes him a hypocrite at best and a liar at worst because it demonstrates that he wasn't representing the people of his state, just himself and his immediate family. It proves he's lacking in compassion as otherwise it wouldn't have required a family member coming out for him to say, "Whoah! Nobody told me homos were human!" Why couldn't he have recognized the reality of that, his constituents being real people to begin with?

    With such politicians it is necessitated that a close family member is laid off right before reaching retirement age, get denied health insurance, lose their homes, or any of a litany of other awful tragedies, else the good people of the state of Ohio can't expect a lick of compassion from the compassionate Senator Portman. Rest assured -- until the same problems land right on his face, yours aren't real.
    Those are good points. I will answer with something I heard. An openly gay reporter for the Washington Post was more easy on him, saying, it took him time to come to terms with it and then his parents. So he understood Portman's evolution. We come to terms, when we come to terms. It's good, however Portman did, that he is there. Some people will never come to even live and let live with respect to homosexuality.

    I hear you on that, and it bothers me too. I don't know why it has to be that way.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Those are state level issues and they won't go away whether gay marriage is legalized or not. If you think, for example, that custody issues between a married hetero (in the process of divorce) couple is a walk in the park then you are sadly mistaken.
    What does it matter if it's state or federal? If they're state issues than the state governments need to define marriage.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    If a person changes their mind because their kid "comes out of the closet", then what does that say about YOU and your ability to weigh the various sides of complex issues?
    I'm guessing you mean about that person.

    It says they let something, in this case religious prejudice, get in the way of their reasoning. That's high bar to go over. Religion is a part of many millions of peoples' lives from birth. How does one go against that? Fortunately, Portman's son lead the way for him.

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