View Poll Results: Against SSM? If family member came out to you, would you change your mind?

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  • No, never.

    10 29.41%
  • No, but possibly at some point.

    0 0%
  • Yes.

    4 11.76%
  • I have gay family member(s), I'm still against SSM

    2 5.88%
  • Squirrel

    18 52.94%
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Thread: Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

  1. #71
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    It shouldn't have to be that way, but for some people that's just the way that it is.

    I'm certainly not going to attack Senator Portman because that's what it took to change his mind.

    I give the man a little credit for accepting reality, some people will never get past that point.

    He happens to be one GOPer that I had some respect for before this came out.

    Seems like a fairly decent guy to me.
    Yeah, I give them a little credit. It's better than nothing. What I meant to say was I'm not going out of my way to win them over or to celebrate when their response up until that point is typically paraphrased "I'm better than you." I had the same reaction of 'meh' when Obama got behind it. It's not 1990 anymore.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    I am ashamed to admit, but yes it would, and yes it did. I am ashamed not to say that I support it, but to admit I was once someone who fell into middle school group think and thought same sex marriage was just... I don't even know the word for it. I remember doing a mock vote for the 2004 election in school, and a kid got made fun of for voting for John Kerry, solely for the reason Kerry supported gay marriage. I wish I could go back and shake my sixth grade self for voting for George Bush for that reason, even if it was just a little mock election.

    My sister came out when I was 14. It was my first ever real experience with someone I was close to coming out as gay, and it didn't change a thing about our relationship. She is still one of my best friends. And one day I would love to see her get married.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by G.2 View Post
    I am ashamed to admit, but yes it would, and yes it did. I am ashamed not to say that I support it, but to admit I was once someone who fell into middle school group think and thought same sex marriage was just... I don't even know the word for it. I remember doing a mock vote for the 2004 election in school, and a kid got made fun of for voting for John Kerry, solely for the reason Kerry supported gay marriage. I wish I could go back and shake my sixth grade self for voting for George Bush for that reason, even if it was just a little mock election.

    My sister came out when I was 14. It was my first ever real experience with someone I was close to coming out as gay, and it didn't change a thing about our relationship. She is still one of my best friends. And one day I would love to see her get married.
    Don't be too hard on yourself. As one of my childhood friends told me when we were adults, "It's just stupid kid stuff you've obviously moved on from.

    Very lovely about your sister. Good to have you in her corner.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well that is not necessarily so. "Law" is to a large extent publicly enforced morality (we say Thou Shalt Not Run Naked Through Elementary Schools because we think it is wrong). Sin as a prohibitive moral statement (thou shalt not) does indeed therefore have strong bearing on the law.
    It may be to a large extent but religious beliefs should not be cited as the reason SSM is not legalized.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    It may be to a large extent but religious beliefs should not be cited as the reason SSM is not legalized.
    One's morals are ones' morals regardless of their origin; and the American people have the right to vote as they do for any motivation they choose. His belief system is just as legitimate as yours (or mine) when it comes to informing his vote. It's one of those "the people are sovereign" things. That is why strict limits on government action are so very important - when you open up a field of activity for government action, you are opening it up for those who disagree with you just as much as those with whom you do not. When you increase the freedom of action of politicians you like.... you are increasing the freedom of action for those who follow them whom you may not like.
    Last edited by cpwill; 03-17-13 at 02:21 AM.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    One's morals are ones' morals regardless of their origin; and the American people have the right to vote as they do for any motivation they choose. His belief system is just as legitimate as yours (or mine) when it comes to informing his vote. It's one of those "the people are sovereign" things. That is why strict limits on government action are so very important - when you open up a field of activity for government action, you are opening it up for those who disagree with you just as much as those with whom you do not. When you increase the freedom of action of politicians you like.... you are increasing the freedom of action for those who follow them whom you may not like.
    The USSC should not rule against it based on the religious preference.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Marriage is a spiritual union and if the Lutherans want to embrace such unions and the Catholics don't then that's their issue, not mine but once the government jumps into the mix it automatically becomes my problem because millions of jackasses on both side of the discussion can't seem to manage not to make it some kind of rallying point for their "cause".
    But hasn't it become inextricably intertwined with law whether we want to define it that way or not? I mean, what about the tax benefits associated with marriage? What about divorce proceedings, authority to make medical decisions on behalf of your SO in life-threatening crises, custody disputes in the case of children etc etc. If we're going to have a legal system that handles that kinds of things, a legal system that acknowledges the existence of marriage, then we at some point we need to define "marriage" legally.

    I think saying marriage should only be a private spiritual relationship with no governmental recognition whatsoever overlooks the reality of the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We've got economic problems and national security problems and immigration problems that are all things that government SHOULD be focusing on but we can't seem to get those addressed because Doris the Dyke and Holy Scripture Hank keep on voting for people based on some stupid platform that shouldn't even be there in the first place.
    Agreed. I actually think gay marriage is a hugely overblown political issue that shouldn't be receiving a level of coverage on par with other major political issues like economic policy , foreign policy etc.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    The USSC should not rule against it based on the religious preference.
    I agree. The USSC should rule for or against it based on the will of the people as it was recorded into law during the various times of the signing and amending of the US Constitution.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    And if you changed your stance, it would be out of compassion.
    Perhaps, and depending on the situation, however as Portman is a Senator I'm going to take a really dangerous leap and guess he ran on a platform of representing the people of his state. Fair assumption or not? If so, then this story makes him a hypocrite at best and a liar at worst because it demonstrates that he wasn't representing the people of his state, just himself and his immediate family. It proves he's lacking in compassion as otherwise it wouldn't have required a family member coming out for him to say, "Whoah! Nobody told me homos were human!" Why couldn't he have recognized the reality of that, his constituents being real people to begin with?

    With such politicians it is necessitated that a close family member is laid off right before reaching retirement age, get denied health insurance, lose their homes, or any of a litany of other awful tragedies, else the good people of the state of Ohio can't expect a lick of compassion from the compassionate Senator Portman. Rest assured -- until the same problems land right on his face, yours aren't real.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 03-17-13 at 06:09 AM.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by G.2 View Post
    I am ashamed to admit, but yes it would, and yes it did. I am ashamed not to say that I support it, but to admit I was once someone who fell into middle school group think and thought same sex marriage was just... I don't even know the word for it. I remember doing a mock vote for the 2004 election in school, and a kid got made fun of for voting for John Kerry, solely for the reason Kerry supported gay marriage. I wish I could go back and shake my sixth grade self for voting for George Bush for that reason, even if it was just a little mock election.

    My sister came out when I was 14. It was my first ever real experience with someone I was close to coming out as gay, and it didn't change a thing about our relationship. She is still one of my best friends. And one day I would love to see her get married.
    You really don't need to hold deep regret or apologize for your attitude at such a young age, although I think it demonstrates how the anti-SSM crowd is thinking on a 6th grade level.

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