View Poll Results: Against SSM? If family member came out to you, would you change your mind?

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  • No, never.

    10 29.41%
  • No, but possibly at some point.

    0 0%
  • Yes.

    4 11.76%
  • I have gay family member(s), I'm still against SSM

    2 5.88%
  • Squirrel

    18 52.94%
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Thread: Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

  1. #51
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    But only with the opposite sex. Those who have no interest in the opposite sex cannot marry at all, in practical terms. Just like allowing women to vote meant "redefining of universal suffrage", accomodating these people requires "redefining of marriage".
    Not marry at all? Not!
    Then can and did marry.
    And as it is available to them, it was not discriminatory. Doesn't matter if they chose to participate in it or not.

    Creating conditions that allow two of the same sex to marry is creating a new right as it did not exist.
    Nothing can change that fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    What would you say about a law that states: everbody has the right to join chess clubs, whether they play chess or not, but not macramé clubs - because it doesn't fit our current definition of "club" (And macramé is so gay)?
    Founders of clubs have the right of association, which to me includes the right not associate.
    Their club, their rules their choice. I care not.

    And as marriage is a contract that allows a union between those of the opposite sex, it does not discriminate.
    Adding to it same sex is changing the foundation of the contract and is creating that which did not exist before.
    It deserves it's own contract.

  2. #52
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Not marry at all? Not!
    Then can and did marry.
    And as it is available to them, it was not discriminatory. Doesn't matter if they chose to participate in it or not.

    Creating conditions that allow two of the same sex to marry is creating a new right as it did not exist.
    Nothing can change that fact.



    Founders of clubs have the right of association, which to me includes the right not associate.
    Their club, their rules their choice. I care not.

    And as marriage is a contract that allows a union between those of the opposite sex, it does not discriminate.
    Adding to it same sex is changing the foundation of the contract and is creating that which did not exist before.
    It deserves it's own contract.
    except you are wrong, slaves werent considered men before and woman werent equal either, making them was EQUAL rights LOL

    once again your example factually fails

    it factually discrimination.

    man can marry woman right?
    woman cant marry woman, right?

    this is factually gender discrimination.

    thanks for playing you factually lose
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  3. #53
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    It isn't an equal rights issue.It is creating a new right.



    Not that long ago, most Americans agreed with you. At one time. I agreed with you. But times have changed, I've changed, and today you are in the minority with your ideas.

    If you don't think so I suggest that you do a little research.

    Most Americans support what you oppose, including the vast majority of young people.

    Who do you think will be running the USA in the future?

    Here's a hint: It won't be today's old people, they'll all be dead and buried.



    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    thats what i thought you got nothing LMAO
    you have been thoroughly exposed
    That is hilarious. Exposed! iLOL

    The argument is valid, and is not nothing. iLOL


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    I have stated facts
    Just as I have.
    Where we differ is that you have also posted fallacies, where I have not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    and posted "nu-huh" thats brilliant LMAO
    Yes you have. And no, that is not brilliant.
    Funny you think it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    fact is gay marriage already exist you cant change that
    Fact is that they have wrongfully stolen a name, changed a definition and applied it to what they want.
    Does not change that fact that it really isn't or that it was wrong to so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    its already been proven to be an equal rights issue
    No it hasn't been "proven".
    Nor could it be, as it obviously isn't.
    Judicial activism doesn't change the facts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    let me know when you can defeat these facts with anything other than your hurt feelings and opinion
    As I have no hurt feeling over the issue so clearly you know not of what you speak.
    Opinion yes, as we all have them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    soon equal gay rights will be national, just the way it is an d it will be a great day because america will have again fixed and inequality, further protected equal rights and rid ourselves of some more discrimination.
    Still wouldn't change the fact that it wasn't and equality, rights, or discrimination issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    so lets recap, gay marriage already exsists and has before we were ever born so you are wrong trying to push your OPINION that it doesn't, if you disagree FACTUALLY prove otherwise, you will fail as usual
    it is about equal gay rights and this has also been proven, if you disagree factually rove otherwise, i cant wait.
    Already proven.
    That is why you are dismissive. You can not counter that which has been provided.

  5. #55
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    In the narrowest technical sense, yes. But isn't it a bit like saying that women's right to vote isn't an equal rights issue?

    Men always voted, women never did; "universal suffrage" meant the right of male citizens to vote, regardless of property, literacy, race or religion. Allowing women to do it as well was "redefining voting" and "creating a new right". But common sense tells you that it was, obviously, an issue of equality.


    Unfortunately 'common sense' is not as common as it should be.

    Anyone who thinks that the Catholic Church will win this battle will be mighty disappointed in the not-distant future.

  6. #56
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    . Loving was shown to be discriminatory because it did not allow a male to join with a female.



    Did you read this before you posted it?



    Nap time. I'll check back later.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 03-16-13 at 12:20 PM.

  7. #57
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Not that long ago, most Americans agreed with you. At one time. I agreed with you. But times have changed, I've changed, and today you are in the minority with your ideas.

    If you don't think so I suggest that you do a little research.
    I know things have changed, just as I know where I stand. Does not mean that change is right.


    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Most Americans support what you oppose, including the vast majority of young people.
    Of course. As a result of indoctrination.
    Still doesn't make it right.
    And it is an indoctrination that can be reversed over time with indoctrination in the opposite direction.


    Which of course doesn't make it right either.
    Only that which is.
    But we are not off into that type of discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Who do you think will be running the USA in the future?

    Here's a hint: It won't be today's old people, they'll all be dead and buried.
    iLOL

    You say this like you are revealing some hidden secret.
    And they are going to have to deal with the problems that we have allowed to come to fruition.
    Just as we are trying to deal with the problems of the decline of traditional family values, which this a part of, I am sure we will not solve that issue and neither will they.


    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Did you read this before you posted it?

    Nap time. I'll check back later.
    Did you have trouble understanding it? I am sorry I was to succinct for you to understand what was meant. It happens.
    The issue in loving was found to be discriminatory. Is that better?

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    No. Never going to change.

    One of my sisters is a lesbian, it doesn't change my stance against homosexual marriage.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  9. #59
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    I support the state's rights to allow for SSM/civil unions. My personal beliefs are that homosexual sex is an act of sinful perversion. I support the legal ability for homosexuals to get married, but my personal beliefs are that in the eyes of God (which is irrelevant to them, I respect that) they are not wed and are living in sin. That fundamental belief will not change unless my theology changes.

    If I was against SSM and a family member came out as a homosexual that probably wouldn't change my opinion just like it wouldn't change my theology as it is now.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I don't really know Rob Portman that well so I can't speak to him. I will say that my sister coming out (she came out to me first, actually) did not change my belief system, and I don't really understand why it would change anyone else's, unless your beliefs were dictated to you by emotion in the first place.
    And if you changed your stance, it would be out of compassion.

    What is your belief system regarding homosexuality? If you don't mind my asking?

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