View Poll Results: Against SSM? If family member came out to you, would you change your mind?

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  • No, never.

    10 29.41%
  • No, but possibly at some point.

    0 0%
  • Yes.

    4 11.76%
  • I have gay family member(s), I'm still against SSM

    2 5.88%
  • Squirrel

    18 52.94%
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Thread: Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

  1. #91
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    What does it matter if it's state or federal? If they're state issues than the state governments need to define marriage.
    As I've said elsewhere if not in this thread, the issue should be a local one but if we're going to get out from under this insanity then we have to start somewhere and clipping it at the federal levels is the first and most important step. After that, as a Republican nation, it's up to the people of the various states where they want their guidelines set..

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    As I've said elsewhere if not in this thread, the issue should be a local one but if we're going to get out from under this insanity then we have to start somewhere and clipping it at the federal levels is the first and most important step. After that, as a Republican nation, it's up to the people of the various states where they want their guidelines set..
    Fair enough, but if I recall your argument against SSM was that government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all. If you agree that state governments (or smaller local governments, whatever) need to define marriage, what is your position on that? Do you think your state government should recognize SSM?

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Religion doesn't own marriage.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #94
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Fair enough, but if I recall your argument against SSM was that government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all. If you agree that state governments (or smaller local governments, whatever) need to define marriage, what is your position on that? Do you think your state government should recognize SSM?
    I don't remember what the thread was where I posted this stuff but I believe that it is a local issue and the more local the better. If, for example, Phoenix wants to recognize gay marriage and Tempe doesn't then so be it but once it gets down to that level it really shouldn't make an political difference one way or another other than, possibly in the way ones house it titled.

  5. #95
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I'm guessing you mean about that person.

    It says they let something, in this case religious prejudice, get in the way of their reasoning. That's high bar to go over. Religion is a part of many millions of peoples' lives from birth. How does one go against that? Fortunately, Portman's son lead the way for him.
    There can be mitigating circumstances, but in a general sense I disagree. If the change in opinion was quick, I say it was/is an emotional decision, not a thoroughly thought-out decision. It also says that the person's original position was never properly thought out, or committed to, either. Basically, the person is prone to bend with the wind according to wherever their interest lies at the moment.

    I would be more believing of the person's change in attitude if it were over a long-ish period of time. I believe that people's opinions can most certainly evolve and change, just that sudden about-faces should be viewed skeptically. (My opinion on the death penalty is 180 degree from what it once was, but it took me over 10 years to make that turn-around complete)

    Disclaimer: Generic viewpoint. Can apply to many other topics as well, including SSM, etc.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    In light of Rob Portman's change of heart regarding gay marriage, if your son/daughter/brother/sister came to you and told you they were gay, would you, could you see yourself changing your stance?
    I have liberal relatives and I have not had a change of heart, I am still hate libs.

  7. #97
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    There can be mitigating circumstances, but in a general sense I disagree. If the change in opinion was quick, I say it was/is an emotional decision, not a thoroughly thought-out decision. It also says that the person's original position was never properly thought out, or committed to, either. Basically, the person is prone to bend with the wind according to wherever their interest lies at the moment.

    I would be more believing of the person's change in attitude if it were over a long-ish period of time. I believe that people's opinions can most certainly evolve and change, just that sudden about-faces should be viewed skeptically. (My opinion on the death penalty is 180 degree from what it once was, but it took me over 10 years to make that turn-around complete)

    Disclaimer: Generic viewpoint. Can apply to many other topics as well, including SSM, etc.
    I the reasoning. With politics, that is easily done as one walks along in lock-step to keep in favor with the group. In Portman's case, he knew for 2 years before changing positions. I don't know if that qualifies as longish. I'm not really trying to defend him either, but there are lots of people experience epiphanies. Shut off in their beliefs, sure that they are right, something happens to open their eyes.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I have liberal relatives and I have not had a change of heart, I am still hate libs.
    That may not be a familial one way street.

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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I hope not. That would mean that I do not have compassion for others already, or that I allowed a particularly strong emotional reaction (such as Portman did) to dictate my beliefs. If I change my beliefs on SSM, I hope it is because I have wise reason to do so, not merely the emotional pull of wishing to validate whatever my children do.



    In this poll, I would be one of the people who have family members (and friends) who are homosexual who don't see a conflict between our love for those persons and our belief that Jesus was correct when he defined marriage in the context of a man and a woman.
    So, homosexuality is not a sin, but homosexuals should not be allowed to marry?

  10. #100
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    Re: Portman. For those members against gay marriage:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I the reasoning. With politics, that is easily done as one walks along in lock-step to keep in favor with the group. In Portman's case, he knew for 2 years before changing positions. I don't know if that qualifies as longish. I'm not really trying to defend him either, but there are lots of people experience epiphanies. Shut off in their beliefs, sure that they are right, something happens to open their eyes.
    I was not aware that Portman knew for two years. Two years could work as "long-ish". For me, and being that he is a politician, it would need to be known how he acted during that two years between knowing and going public. I think it would be safe to say that his son's admission threw his belief into a state of uncertainty. So... during that time that he was wrestling with it (which I have zero issue with), did he back off on his political and public posturing, or was he at least somewhat intellectually honest and back off regarding this particular issue.

    I wouldn't expect him, nor would I want him, to do a quick about-face, but I do feel he should back off and not portray himself as defined on the issue as he had previously.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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