View Poll Results: Has Obama redefined Democratic positions and Liberalism?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, and I disapprove of many of the changes

    11 36.67%
  • Yes, and I approve of many of the changes

    1 3.33%
  • No, his policies are what liberalism really has always been

    5 16.67%
  • No, I see no changes from traditional liberal and Democratic principles

    6 20.00%
  • IDK/Other

    7 23.33%
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Thread: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

  1. #21
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Quote Originally Posted by WWGWD View Post
    So, you tell me, where does that put me on the political scale?
    Emerging neocon, one who is in the process of coming over from the dark side. Welcome!
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
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  2. #22
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Right, because after all the times he told people to hold him accountable, all the times he said he "owned" it, it was still always someone else's fault, no matter how long they've been gone, and how long he's been running things. You apparently lap it up like a kitten's milk, though.
    You trust your own perceptions of how things work far too much.

    A leader takes responsibility. And that even includes times when thinks aren't actually his fault. Why? He's the guy in charge, and that's what effective leaders do. Constantly blaming others is weak, weak "leadership."
    As far as that goes, Obama has. He just doesn't receive credit or recognition for it by the opposition, other than to insult him for perceived insincerity.

    The idea the Obama is somehow unique in the degrees to which he takes or does not take responsibility among presidents or among politicians of any time period, nation, or cultural context is entirely a narrative fiction spun specifically because it was scientifically deduced by the opposition leaders and their think tanks that their base was receptive to such criticism and that it could be used to mobilize effective political action against Obama. It is made up and exists inside the opposition's heads.

    Even if there was any degree of truth echoing somewhere in the observation, there would be no way to know where the good critical appraisal starts and where the right-wing delusion ends, because the right-wing that manufactured and produced the observation was never interested in fair-minded evaluation of Obama from the very beginning, because it served no specific goal of theirs to appraise his motivations, goals, or achievements from a fair-minded perspective.

    It is modern liberalism that has no persistent reality or meaning.
    Okay then.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-15-13 at 08:31 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  3. #23
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Agreed, in spades. Presidents are supposed to be leaders: leaders make decisions, losers make excuses. Obama makes excuses.
    That is the thing I despise about Obama..he makes SO many excuses.

    He never seems to take responsibility for his mistakes or the things he has to go back on.

  4. #24
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That is the thing I despise about Obama..he makes SO many excuses.

    He never seems to take responsibility for his mistakes or the things he has to go back on.
    Mostly because the things he is supposed to take responsibility for are manufactured drama. Taking Benghazi an example, many more embassies were attacked during the Bush Administration, but even the opposition didn't have much to say about it, as it seemed like one of the realities of fighting a guerrilla war against terrorists who have no qualm attacking civilian government targets and are willing to hurt the United States in anyway they can. In most cases their plots and attacks can be countered, but they will succeed sometimes so long as we are in anyway exposed to their assaults, which will be the case in regions where their organizations have political and cultural influence.

    Then you have a hotly contested presidential election, and suddenly a successful attack on an embassy acquires new meaning that did not exist previously.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  5. #25
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Mostly because the things he is supposed to take responsibility for are manufactured drama. Taking Benghazi an example, many more embassies were attacked during the Bush Administration, but even the opposition didn't have much to say about it, as it seemed like one of the realities of fighting a guerrilla war against terrorists who have no qualm attacking civilian government targets and are willing to hurt the United States in anyway they can. In most cases their plots and attacks can be countered, but they will succeed sometimes so long as we are in anyway exposed to their assaults, which will be the case in regions where their organizations have political and cultural influence.

    Then you have a hotly contested presidential election, and suddenly a successful attack on an embassy acquires new meaning that did not exist previously.
    I was not thinking about Benghazi.

    I was thinking about how he promised to close Gitmo and just blames everyone else when it did not get done.

    He also promised to half the deficit in his first term - again, he just makes excuses.

    And please save me the pro-Obama nonsense as to why the above two did not come to pass.

    I have heard it ALL before and they are total nonsense.


    And there are many other instances.

    He NEVER takes responsibility for his failures...never.

    He is a terrible POTUS.

    He goes back on his word.

    He is hurting the economy - unemployment is worse now then when he took over despite the fact the national debt has skyrocketed. And speaking of skyrocketed - that describes the growth in food stamp usage since he took over.

    He whines about the sequester even though he was the one who pushed for it SO strongly last year and he signed it into law.

    He deliberately ramped up the war in Afghanistan and now America (and the West) are going to leave having failed miserably (despite valiant efforts from the troops) as that country is clearly going to revert back to almost exactly the way it was before 9/11 once the foreign troops leave.

    Foreign policy, the economy, spending.

    You name it - this guy has failed at it and yet he never takes responsibility for his failures.


    The guy is a spineless loser as a POTUS.
    Last edited by DA60; 03-16-13 at 04:59 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The loyalty to Obama by Democrats is astonishing to me and appears unique to Obama. Historically, Democrats had no problem protesting Democratic presidents - such as LBJ ("Hey, Hey, LBJ, how many boys did you kill today?") - while Republicans supported LBJ. Now, partisan lines are so absolute that Obama is like Rev. Moon leading his mindless worshippers.

    Here are many examples:

    1. While infuriated at the the government monitoring who checks out library books, Democrats now support the government using drones in the USA to watch all Americans.

    2. There is silence by Democrats over record numbers of refusals to comply with Open Records requests.

    3. Democrats used to condemn and protest drone strikes in other countries - which Obama condemned in campaigning - but now support even increases in foreign drone strikes.

    4. Democrats support massive increases in the militarization of the police including Federal police.

    5. Democrats dropped all criticism of not closing Gitmo, something Obama campaigned on doing.

    6. Democrats are silent on hypocrisy and contradiction and failure - from the administration cancelling allowing anyone else with pre-existing conditions to have affordable insurance under ObamaCare - to Obama lying and then admitting to proposing sequestration to then oppose what he got passed, drone strikes, Gitmo, and the rest.

    You also hear over and over on this forum extreme arguments that the Bill of Rights are irrelevant in terms of the power of Congress, where liberals used to intensely support the Bill of Rights.

    Has Obama redefined and even reversed many liberal and Democratic traditional stances and priorities?
    Leftism has always been statist. Don't confuse political opportunism during the Bush years with their actual beliefs.

  7. #27
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Has he harmed them? No because he is not a true liberal. Its simply how US politics work the pres is in office and 3/4 of the party follows.


  8. #28
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Leftism has always been statist. Don't confuse political opportunism during the Bush years with their actual beliefs.
    Sadly, an ideology's convictions will never be equal to their enthusiasm, but America's left-wing is in no contest with the right when it comes to who is worse at sticking to their principles. Conservatives are far worse.

    For example, health care reform is and has been a liberal position for decades. Obama achieved some kind of health care reform. Meanwhile, substantially reducing illegal immigration has been a conservative position for decades. When Republicans possessed congressional majorities and the oval office from 2002 and 2006, they never attempted such reform.

    He NEVER takes responsibility for his failures...never.
    Obama takes full responsibility for the economy - The Plum Line - The Washington Post
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-16-13 at 01:08 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  9. #29
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    So joko104, only liberal Democrats are supposed to be voting in this poll? You didn't make that clear.

  10. #30
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    Re: Has Obama harmed traditional liberalism and Democrats' positions?

    Did anyone ever figure out where Obama is actually from..

    He went to Ireland..claiming he was Irish...

    I don't remember any black tribes being indigenous to Ireland???

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