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Do you REALLY care about the next Pope?

How much do you care about who the next Pope is?

  • Total voters
    106
I do care, even though my own experiment with Catholicism (and religion in general) had ended long time ago.

I still have a portrait of Pope Wojtyla (John Paul II) over my desk: his leadership was instrumental in defeating one of the greatest evils that ever plagued human race.

The Church may be a flawed institution (show me a flawless one), but, in the societies I am familair with, it has a great record of charitable work, of supporting quality education where no one else would, etc.

Also, while I am comfortable with my atheism, I am not comfortable with the idea of millions suddenly losing their faith without any intellectual or cultural replacement in sight. Human mind abhors spiritual vacuum: remove the Crucifix, a stature of Dear Leader will be erected in its place.

But we are all familiar with historical examples of the less-attractive side of Catholic organizations.

Even these days, I cannot quite ignore the fact that a priest warning a family of poor third-world peasants against contraception is making that family's situation progressively more hopeless.

And political affiliations do matter. While at loggerheads with the Nazis and the Communists, the RCC had generally sided with Franco and Salazar - against both socialist and liberal alternatives. When thugs and demagogues of our time, like Hugo Chavez, present themselves as hyper-Catholic apostles to the poor, I don't think they are lying - that's how they understand Catholicism - Liberation Theology, and all that jazz. It is absolutely important that the next Pontiff would be someone willing and capable of rejecting their version of Christian activism.
 
As a non-observant Catholic, I have little to no interest in who will be the next Pope. While many of the teachings of the Church have stuck with me as I've aged, the hierarchy and administrative structure of the Church has lost any respect I may have had for it and along with lost respect, interest soon follows.

I believe I live my life in ways Jesus taught and with an ingrained respect for right and wrong and the frailty of humans like myself. The antiquated rituals and irrational judgements of Catholicism and every other religion are of little consequence to my outlook on life and my treatment of others.
 
Cyrylek said:
Liberation Theology, and all that jazz. It is absolutely important that the next Pontiff would be someone willing and capable of rejecting their version of Christian activism.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that you know John Paul II was an ardent opponent of liberation theology, going so far as publicly scolding Ernesto Cardenal for his place in government.

Skip to 1:30 for the relevant video. It is a German newscast.

 
Sarcogito said:
Well, I am an atheist who thinks the Church is a horrible institution. However, I understand why this is making so much news and it SHOULD make news. THe Pope is the religious leader of over 1 billion people on Earth. The things he says and rules (whatever you call them) he passes affect not only the behavior of individuals but the actions of nations, particularly in the developing world where the Church holds the most sway.

I don't care so much who it is because I have low expectations they would choose anyone who would make a positive change. My money is on an old white guy willing to protect child f**kers. Hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Ditto...on your post.

I think that the Catholic Church has finally revealed its vulnerabilities to public scrutiny in a way that the church has battled to avoid for centuries. The Church use to make people pay for penance and would punish people (including death penalties) claim people to be heretics for whatever reason they made up. In other words, people feared the Church. When the church could no longer play "judge, jury, and executioner...since that time I think more and more people are climbing out of the dark ages thinking and taking on more humanist values that reflect a more realistic obligation to their fellow humans of personal responsibility and accountability...and not dropping the dime on a supernatural being for either being the instigator of human woes...or not intervening in human events because of a free will clause...which ever best suits one's belief at any given moment.

So now...it appears that people are demanding that the church stop denying its hypocrisies, but more importantly, to stop aiding and abetting criminals (sexual predictors). That makes the Pope's role way more accountable...like it or not.

Oddly enough, people react to the Church in ways that virtually mimic a form of statutory rules of law created by local, state, and federal government. However, the Church's tenets aren't at all bound by any legal authority. People who choose to accept and practice the tenets of ANY CHURCH do so willing. And rarely does anybody live their lives in perfect harmony with a church's teachings.

I would think that the only true way to display one's faith would be to be a living example of how one believes. Then if others are somehow attracted to that person's way of life...then they can make inquiry as to how they've come to express their beliefs through their everyday living experiences. The reality is: No church can enforce its teachings and/or tenets in the same manner citizens are subject to regarding civil laws.

If a person who fails to meet a Church's expectations...then the church can simply drop that person from the membership.

I personally think its a huge infringement on Separation of Church and State for any church of any given faith to lobby its beliefs to political factions...seeking to get its tenets made into civil law. And the Catholic Church is noted for trying to edge its teaching into civil governments probably more than any other church (with the exception of Muslim religions in the Middle East and other predominate Muslim countries, which obviously is the driving force behind most governments).
 
I'm not Catholic, it doesn't really matter to me. I have little respect for the papacy anyway.
 
Interesting that the two factions, which are most vocal on abortion, are allies only on this issue.

The Catholic Church, and the Southern Evangelist are, for the most part, antagonist to each other. The Catholics believe that the Baptist Protestants are not going to heaven, and the Jones University Protestants Protestants believe that the Catholic Church is a cult.

It is indeed a strange alliance.

Both lockstep in making sure that the secularists are put in check by codifying the pro life stance.

With the SCOTUS Catholic majority... They just might pull it off. After all... This has overtly been the objective for years.

Let's see... A SCOTUS decision to over turn Roe V Wade
enacted by the Catholics on the bench. Wonder how thats gonna fly?
 
ChuckBerry said:
It was a unique set of circumstances that make John Paul II a towering figure of the 20th century...in terms of church history, however, his legacy will be much more controversial, the fact that the pedophile priest problems began on his watch being only one of the issues complicating his place in papal history.
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Good morning, Chuckberry.

I am reasonably certain that the pedophile priest problem has a very long history, and didn't start with John Paul II, but it is strange that it became an issue under his watch. The timing bothers me. Did we suddenly become more morally aware of things, or could it have been a propaganda ploy on the part of those who are anti-religion, who delight in calling attention to anything that would make the church look bad?
 
Fog hit said:
Interesting that the two factions, which are most vocal on abortion, are allies only on this issue.

The Catholic Church, and the Southern Evangelist are, for the most part, antagonist to each other. The Catholics believe that the Baptist Protestants are not going to heaven, and the Jones University Protestants Protestants believe that the Catholic Church is a cult.

It is indeed a strange alliance.

Both lockstep in making sure that the secularists are put in check by codifying the pro life stance.

With the SCOTUS Catholic majority... They just might pull it off. After all... This has overtly been the objective for years.

Let's see... A SCOTUS decision to over turn Roe V Wade
enacted by the Catholics on the bench. Wonder how thats gonna fly?
Click to expand...

Good morning Foggie.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Obamacare, the crown jewel of the President and liberals, became the conduit by which the Roe v Wade decision got reviewed and perhaps overturned by the current Supreme Court?
 
ChuckBerry said:
So you can't actually demonstrate why you think I'm trying to have it both ways.
Click to expand...

Are you Catholic?... Yes. Do you want Roe V Wade overturned?... Yes. Does your religious upbringing have an affect on your upbringing?... Yes. Does the Catholic Church want Roe V Wade overturned?... Yes.

Voilà... =4.

Any rookie constitutional lawyer can cut holes in any argument for the overturning of Roe V Wade. When 2/3rds of Americans believe that this issue is not for the state to decide... You can have the SCOTUS 100% Catholic or Southern Evangelist, and if Roe V Wade is overturned, within 10 years, that decision will be overturned for good.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Good morning Foggie.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Obamacare, the crown jewel of the President and liberals, became the conduit by which the Roe v Wade decision got reviewed and perhaps overturned by the current Supreme Court?
Click to expand...

Hey my friend. How ya doin?
 
I'm curious - are the Debate Politics clocks off today or did I move into a Mountain time region overnight and not realize it?
 
Dragonfly said:
You think what the pope says and does effect the actions of nations?

I'm thinking most catholics use some form of birth control.
Click to expand...


Now, now, now, we all know that you get to pick and choose what you want to follow. It's a great way to mask your hate/bigotry.
(not directed at you, Dragon, but those sheep that blindly follow fairy tales)
 
polgara said:
Good morning, Chuckberry.

I am reasonably certain that the pedophile priest problem has a very long history, and didn't start with John Paul II, but it is strange that it became an issue under his watch. The timing bothers me. Did we suddenly become more morally aware of things, or could it have been a propaganda ploy on the part of those who are anti-religion, who delight in calling attention to anything that would make the church look bad?
Click to expand...

As with all things good Lady... The institution may look bad, but those who really do Christian things... Do not.

There are many good priests and laymen. But only they, and who they help, know it.

That's the way it should be.

Oh... Hello to you.
 
Fog hit said:
Interesting that the two factions, which are most vocal on abortion, are allies only on this issue.

The Catholic Church, and the Southern Evangelist are, for the most part, antagonist to each other. The Catholics believe that the Baptist Protestants are not going to heaven, and the Jones University Protestants Protestants believe that the Catholic Church is a cult.

It is indeed a strange alliance.

Both lockstep in making sure that the secularists are put in check by codifying the pro life stance.

With the SCOTUS Catholic majority... They just might pull it off. After all... This has overtly been the objective for years.

Let's see... A SCOTUS decision to over turn Roe V Wade
enacted by the Catholics on the bench. Wonder how thats gonna fly?
Click to expand...

"Politics make strange bedfellows." Charles Dudley Warner

If these two groups can put aside their differences and unite on something that is important to them, would it be too much to expect the two parties in Congress to do the same for the American people, instead of playing the "blame the other guy" game? A little cooperation and negotiation could work wonders, once the egos and partisanship are kicked out of the way, IMO! :thumbs:
 
I'm a completely secular Jew, so the selection of the Pope has no personal resonance with me. However he is the religious leader of 1 out of every 6 humans on this planet, and his influence over cultural and religious mores has a profound impact on politics, society, and even economic thought. The selection of the Pope is a major news event.
 
I grew up in a Catholic neighborhood, and my Mom's side of the family are all Mary worshipers. Back then, who became Pope was huge stuff. Today...I couldn't care less who the new Pope is, but I do think that the guy who was the last Pope should go to jail for obstruction of justice and running a continuous criminal enterprise---RICO.

Sadly, this country with it's stupid concept of bending over in the the name of "Freedom of Religion" fails to enforce anything remotely conspiratorial when it comes to the Church's misdeed. So, instead of watching OJ trials with priests, bishops, cardinals and popes, we can find some solace in the idea that few people care about who becomes Pope anymore.
 
Agree or not, like it or not, many people on this planet are influenced to some degree by the Pope. The world needs a world class Pope right about now.
 
I think the news coverage of most things is overblown - they have lots of airtime to fill - and this is o exception.

That said the pope is a head of state and the spiritual leader of a quarter of the planet. He has lots of influence, so like it or not the pope is a big player on the world stage.
 
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