• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years old?

Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years old?

  • No, it's not wrong. We should change the law so material that old is public domain.

    Votes: 22 62.9%

  • It's technically wrong, but not really a big deal.

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • Yes, it's wrong. The copyright owner has the right to control it, even if he's an heir.

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • Not sure.

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Total voters
    35
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Cephus said:
But that's really the thing. If someone pays for a song on a jukebox, everyone in the place gets to hear it for free. While the wretched RIAA would probably want every single person to pay an independent fee, screw the f'ing RIAA.
Click to expand...

Yet with internet juke boxes only one copy is bought and it is generating revenue for many thousands of plays only for the juke box company (like AMI) that bought one copy. It just seems like their should be some financial benefit (percentage?) paid to the artist involved, especially in those offered in fee for play situations.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Dr. Chuckles said:
if your using a torrent, then you are not simply downloading for personal use. You are actively distributing it
Click to expand...

He is NOT distributing it. How do you get that? If he burned Game of Thrones onto a DVD and sold it at a flea market for $10 a disk, he's distributing it. If he watches Game of Thrones on HBO and misses an episode, and he gets it off bit torrent or wherever, and watches the episode that he missed - how is he distributing it? Distributing means taking something and selling it for profit. How is that what he's doing?

Edited to add: I guess, technically you could consider what he's doing as distributing, if he regularly goes online and allows his HD to be leeched by others. I just don't see it as the same - I don't see it as wrong, as say, mass producing copies and selling them at a flea market. If he's just going online to see the episodes he's missed, there's nothing wrong with it.
 
Last edited:
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Dr. Chuckles said:
again, that isn't making that copy available to millions of people instantaneously
Click to expand...

Plus, that was a legal use. Of course, it was fought by the industry, along with the used marketplace, but it was a legal activity.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

ttwtt78640 said:
Yet with internet juke boxes only one copy is bought and it is generating revenue for many thousands of plays only for the juke box company (like AMI) that bought one copy. It just seems like their should be some financial benefit (percentage?) paid to the artist involved, especially in those offered in fee for play situations.
Click to expand...

A lot of those do pay out every time the song is played, it's the old ones that run on CDs or vinyl that don't.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Superfly said:
He is NOT distributing it. How do you get that? If he burned Game of Thrones onto a DVD and sold it at a flea market for $10 a disk, he's distributing it. If he watches Game of Thrones on HBO and misses an episode, and he gets it off bit torrent or wherever, and watches the episode that he missed - how is he distributing it? Distributing means taking something and selling it for profit. How is that what he's doing?
Click to expand...

No, it does upload parts of the file to others, that's how BitTorrent works. Of course, there's no way of knowing if you've ever shared the entire file and the file itself is worthless if you don't have all of it, so whether or not you're distributing anything is questionable. Then again, I don't give a damn.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Superfly said:
He is NOT distributing it. How do you get that? If he burned Game of Thrones onto a DVD and sold it at a flea market for $10 a disk, he's distributing it. If he watches Game of Thrones on HBO and misses an episode, and he gets it off bit torrent or wherever, and watches the episode that he missed - how is he distributing it? Distributing means taking something and selling it for profit. How is that what he's doing?
Click to expand...

Bittorrent operates on the belief that you must share the burden in uploading the files in order to have the service work. The files that you download thus force you to contribute in the distribution. This was why the music and film industry could nail individual downloaders with piracy on Bittorrent. In many other peer-to-peer programs of the past, you simply downloaded files from users who had actively uploaded the content. Those downloading the files were fine, those uploading were targeted by the industry for lawsuits. Some software of those P2P clients included the clause that you must upload your download folder at least 1 kb per second.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Superfly said:
He is NOT distributing it. How do you get that?
Click to expand...

A torrent actively distributes the material as you download. That's why it was such a huge step over the p2p system, legally and functionally. Also, distribution has nothing to do with acquiring a profit




If he burned Game of Thrones onto a DVD and sold it at a flea market for $10 a disk, he's distributing it. If he watches Game of Thrones on HBO and misses an episode, and he gets it off bit torrent or wherever, and watches the episode that he missed - how is he distributing it? Distributing means taking something and selling it for profit. How is that what he's doing?[/QUOTE]
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Cephus said:
I really don't care. I download 100% of my TV viewing so I can watch it on my schedule. It's no different than saving it to a DVR.
Click to expand...

Same here, I want to watch American TV but I'm in Germany, so I stream 100% of my tv via 'illegal' on demand sites. The funny thing though is, as far as I can tell, streaming from a website is not technically illegal for the user, just the company. Apparently a court ruled that you as the user are not required to verify that the streaming site has the rights to stream it.

Downloading it via torrents is far less ambiguous (but I do that too)
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Cephus said:
No, it does upload parts of the file to others, that's how BitTorrent works. Of course, there's no way of knowing if you've ever shared the entire file and the file itself is worthless if you don't have all of it, so whether or not you're distributing anything is questionable. Then again, I don't give a damn.
Click to expand...

I've been downloading material since ftps. So i'm not getting on some moral high horse here, just pointing out some basic facts. Also, I don't think there is a distinction in place for only partially sharing material, at least legally
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Cephus said:
No, it does upload parts of the file to others, that's how BitTorrent works. Of course, there's no way of knowing if you've ever shared the entire file and the file itself is worthless if you don't have all of it, so whether or not you're distributing anything is questionable. Then again, I don't give a damn.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Cephus, Fiddytree and Chuckles - I thought about that after I posted. I had to remember how p2p sites work. I've never used a torrent site, but I'd think they work on the same principle as p2p. That's why I added and edited after I realized what I was saying. Der.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

RabidAlpaca said:
Same here, I want to watch American TV but I'm in Germany, so I stream 100% of my tv via 'illegal' on demand sites. The funny thing though is, as far as I can tell, streaming from a website is not technically illegal for the user, just the company.
Click to expand...

that's because you're not sharing it, you're only sponging.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Dr. Chuckles said:
that's because you're not sharing it, you're only sponging.
Click to expand...
I'm putting money from ads into the hands of the pirates instead of the actors, producers, and studios. Sounds like the studios need to stop being ****s and redefine their business model to fit the demand. I can't even watch Hulu or any of the legal services because they block everyone out of the US.

Spotify has the right business model. I haven't pirated music since I downloaded Spotify.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Dr. Chuckles said:
again, that isn't making that copy available to millions of people instantaneously
Click to expand...

But it's still copyright infringement, is it not?
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Fiddytree said:
Bittorrent operates on the belief that you must share the burden in uploading the files in order to have the service work. The files that you download thus force you to contribute in the distribution. This was why the music and film industry could nail individual downloaders with piracy on Bittorrent. In many other peer-to-peer programs of the past, you simply downloaded files from users who had actively uploaded the content. Those downloading the files were fine, those uploading were targeted by the industry for lawsuits. Some software of those P2P clients included the clause that you must upload your download folder at least 1 kb per second.
Click to expand...

I knew there was a reason why I instinctually avoided bit torrents all my life. The idea of forced sharing even if annoynomous seemed wrong. I've stream on demanded every single episode of startrek from every series though. :S Hey all I did was type in a search engine for a service that offered free viewings and never formally kept the download after the view. Oh the magic of that whole series. You gotta watch some pretty crappy commercials though. Its were "they" send all the test commercials.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Dr. Chuckles said:
I've been downloading material since ftps. So i'm not getting on some moral high horse here, just pointing out some basic facts. Also, I don't think there is a distinction in place for only partially sharing material, at least legally
Click to expand...

There isn't. If you are participating in the distribution then you are breaking the law even if you, me, and 100 other users are part of the hive that generates the end product. Usually they go after the big sites and maybe a sacrificial lamb every now and then it seems. I don't (not that I haven't in the past) simply because you never know what you be be loading into your computer really, I can afford to get it legally, or I just have become so disconnected from TV/Hollywood there is no desire there. I did it some to see if I wanted to buy a CD but now that is all on youtube so there really is no practical reason to download just to test drive some tracks when I can watch/listen for free legally.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

RabidAlpaca said:
I'm putting money from ads into the hands of the pirates instead of the actors, producers, and studios. Sounds like the studios need to stop being ****s and redefine their business model to fit the demand. I can't even watch Hulu or any of the legal services because they block everyone out of the US.

Spotify has the right business model. I haven't pirated music since I downloaded Spotify.
Click to expand...

you're not missing much with HULU, unless they recently changed. They play the same ****ing commercial like every five minutes.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

madman said:
But it's still copyright infringement, is it not?
Click to expand...

You're joking, right? It's not.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

madman said:
But it's still copyright infringement, is it not?
Click to expand...

Well, as someone else pointed out, it's considered fair use to make such a copy. So legally no. I was more pointing to the obvious practical differences, and the fact that one copy can have a huge impact on the market (just look at any leaked award screener)
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Dr. Chuckles said:
you're not missing much with HULU, unless they recently changed. They play the same ****ing commercial like every five minutes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and the selection sucks. A legal service that offers every tv show I want to watch simply doesn't exist. There's too much cockblockery being done by the tv/movie industry.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Superfly said:
What is Spotify?
Click to expand...

A limited-use free service that allows for internet streaming of millions of songs. The fee tiers allow for limitless listening, "apps" to help find new music, and use on numerous devices.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

RabidAlpaca said:
Yeah, and the selection sucks. A legal service that offers every tv show I want to watch simply doesn't exist. There's too much cockblockery being done by the tv/movie industry.
Click to expand...

I was goign to use Hulu when it first came out, "Free TV on your computer!" So I went and signed up, and found out that the "free" part was TV that sucked that nobody watched. You had to pay for the other stuff, and even that wasn't anything to write home about.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

RabidAlpaca said:
Yeah, and the selection sucks. A legal service that offers every tv show I want to watch simply doesn't exist. There's too much cockblockery being done by the tv/movie industry.
Click to expand...

HBO was actually pretty smart keeping their content close to the vest. All the other channels did licensing their material to netflix accomplished was make someone else a huge player in the market. That's why netflix lost most of their content a year or two ago. Those early contracts were finally meeting their death and no content provider wanted to renew them at the original price
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Superfly said:
What is Spotify?
Click to expand...

Spotify.com

It's sick as hell. Completely free, you can simply type in an artist, and pull up every one of their albums. You can then make your own playlists and play any song on demand any time you want.

If you're in the US, I believe the first 6 months are commercial free. After that there's the occaisonal commercial. You can pay $5/month for zero commercials and mobile/mp3 usage.

I have absolutely zero reason to pirate music, because I can legally listen to anything I want 24/7.

It's MORE convenient that piracy.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Fiddytree said:
A limited-use free service that allows for internet streaming of millions of songs. The fee tiers allow for limitless listening, "apps" to help find new music, and use on numerous devices.
Click to expand...

So how is it any different than youtube or pandora? Other than the fee part?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom