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Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years old?

Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years old?

  • No, it's not wrong. We should change the law so material that old is public domain.

    Votes: 22 62.9%

  • It's technically wrong, but not really a big deal.

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • Yes, it's wrong. The copyright owner has the right to control it, even if he's an heir.

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • Not sure.

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Total voters
    35
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Luna Tick said:
You would think that really old TV shows (40 years or more) would have expired copyrights, but that's often not the case. Do you believe it's wrong to download such shows from unauthorized sources such as torrents?

Just to be clear, the question is about shows 40 years old or more which do not have expired copyrights.
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I do not think its immoral to copy 40 year old shows. To be fair I do not think its immoral to copy something. If I go to the furniture store,see a table I like and go home and make a table exactly like the one I saw in the store. Did I do anything immoral,did I steal anything?Hell no I did not do anything immoral or steal anything. Now if I go and try to take credit for the design of the table or try to sell it as an original then it would be immoral and fraudulent.


I made a poll on a similar subject last year.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...yright-last-before-becomes-public-domain.html
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Kal'Stang said:
No, instead of a few mouse clicks they would just push a couple of buttons to record onto another tape and then mass distribute it that way. The way it is done may be different but mass distributing happened just as much back then with cassette tapes as it is done today with the computer and internet.
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having to physically copy a tape and distribute it is clearly more restrictive than loading something up on the internet, where millions of people can access it within hours. I'm honestly amazed that anyone would take a contrary position to that, being that it seems so fundamentally obvious

PS not to mention your vhs and audio tape copies sounded like **** after the transfer. A digital copy can be endlessly traded with no degradation
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

ChuckBerry said:
Just so. Producer Steve Albini has a long tirade available on the internet about how much record companies take away from new artists on their first CD's, but doesn't acknowledge that the only reason the whole nation knows about their new CD is because of the huge marketing machine that the label has, and that the little indie band that could can't even dream of replicating.

If you want to make a living, you can skip the major labels. If you to make it big...bite the bullet.
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Steve Albini has always been extremely jaded towards the record industry. I think Big black broke up specifically due to the fact they started gaining "commercial" success
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

I've seen enough rationalizing in this thread to last me a lifetime.

Now, I'm not necessarily any more ethical in my actions than anybody else here, but at least I'm not kidding myself. :roll:
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

There is the other extreme, also. Garth Brooks, for example, strongly believes that people shouldn't "own" CDs, tapes, albums, etc. People would essentially rent them. He would also make the second-hand market illegal and would require that people turn their CDs and such back into whomever "owns" them when done with them.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

radcen said:
There is the other extreme, also. Garth Brooks, for example, strongly believes that people shouldn't "own" CDs, tapes, albums, etc. People would essentially rent them. He would also make the second-hand market illegal and would require that people turn their CDs and such back into whomever "owns" them when done with them.
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Does he also want universal background checks to 'rent' those CDs?

It's because of idiots like Garth Brooks that black market music is so prevalent.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Jerry said:
Does he also want universal background checks to 'rent' those CDs?

It's because of idiots like Garth Brooks that black market music is so prevalent.
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Ha! Wouldn't surprise me. It also wouldn't surprise me if he wanted us to 'rent' music for only a limited time or number of plays, then force us to pay again to renew. I don't know that, but given his overall attitude, it wouldn't surprise me.

This is one example (there are more) that I consider Garth Brooks to be an arrogant selfish prick.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Dr. Chuckles said:
Steve Albini has always been extremely jaded towards the record industry. I think Big black broke up specifically due to the fact they started gaining "commercial" success
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I'm not much of a fan of Courtney Love, and I have a lot of respect for Albini as a producer, but Love's quote in response to an insulting remark he made about her strikes me as an accurate assessment of his personality: "The only way Steve Albini would think I was a perfect girlfriend would be if I was from the East Coast, played the cello, had big tits and small hoop earrings, wore black turtlenecks, had all matching luggage, and never said a word."
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

ChuckBerry said:
I'm not much of a fan of Courtney Love, and I have a lot of respect for Albini as a producer, but Love's quote in response to an insulting remark he made about her strikes me as an accurate assessment of his personality: "The only way Steve Albini would think I was a perfect girlfriend would be if I was from the East Coast, played the cello, had big tits and small hoop earrings, wore black turtlenecks, had all matching luggage, and never said a word."
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Tits always look better in a sweater. Just sayin'. :cool:

ETA: Courtney Love not saying a word would be a good thing. But, that's a different issue. :mrgreen:
 
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Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Jerry said:
It's because of idiots like Garth Brooks that black market music is so prevalent.
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Metallica was another group who came to the digital download late. When they did I went online to download a handful of songs. I was going to purchase them through Musicmatch for 99c each. Metallica put a restriction that you had to buy the entire album. No, I did not purchase any. You were not allowed to purchase individual songs. Something about their artistic qualities being lost when listened to individually. Spare me the artsy crap. :roll:

Metallica, IMO, did more to actually encourage illegal downloading than anybody else.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

It's not wrong at all. In fact, it's not wrong to download the TV show that was broadcast last night.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Luna Tick said:
I'm asking when copyrights should expire. When do you think they should? Or do you think they should never expire? Do you think the works of Edgar Allan Poe should still be copyrighted even though he's been dead since 1849?
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If Disney and similar groups have their way, copyright will never expire.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Cephus said:
It's not wrong at all. In fact, it's not wrong to download the TV show that was broadcast last night.
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I think that's the pov I begin from....I taped songs while they were on the radio, I taped shows while they were airing on the TV....this was endorsed by the industry by selling me the tapes and recorders to do it, offering regular customers deals on these items, even.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

When you watch any video from any site you are downloading that file. The only problem with downloading files is selling them for a profit when you do not own the rights to do so.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Yeah, here's the problem with that.

Most forms of legal online content ARE uniquely abusive.

They're basically ticking bombs. They have DRM that can cause them spontaneously stop working for a variety of different reasons: the DRM provider goes defunct, the file type the DRM applies to goes defunct, the company just decides to pull some of its content, or your individual account, etc, etc, etc.

In addition to that, it can stop you from making backups for yourself in case of data loss. It can stop you from using the content if you switch devices. It can do all kinds of things that prohibit people from reasonable personal use.

So basically, they expect you to pay full-price for something you're really only loaning for an unknown period of time. That is insane. And that is why a lot of people pirate. They may not realize exactly what's happening, but they do know that they didn't get what they paid for, and they paid an insane amount for the pleasure.

Mostly, this is purely for the benefit of the middlemen. They're taking home most of the cash at the end of the day. So what you're denying the artist is actually insultingly small. They're being conned as much as you are, and the middlemen keep them in that position by telling them if they go DRM-free, people will just stop buying anything at all.

And that is a big lie.

Some artists are starting to reject the fear rhetoric of their managers, and simply releasing their content without DRM on their own, or for free with the option to donate. Many find that their revenue increases dramatically.

O'Reilly drops ebook DRM, sees 104% increase in sales - Boing Boing

Louis CK: Over $1 Million In Sales In Just 12 Days For DRM-Free Download | Techdirt

EMI says DRM-free music is selling well | Ars Technica

People WANT to support the artists they love. They really do. And if you give them a way to do that without getting completely ripped off, they will.
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Indeed. I once purchased a digital copy of Mass Effect 2 only to discover that it hadn't carried over in a sale of assets to another company. They later acquired it independently, but that was years later.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Not only is the rationalizing in this thread incredible, but so is the misinformation. For all the effort many of you go to on almost every other subject to make sure accuracy and honesty is portrayed down to a gnat's arse, the willful disconnect here is mind-boggling. Just because you can download a song or video does not automatically mean it is approved legally to do so. In some cases it is, in some cases it is not.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

My general rule of thumb is if its been publicly broadcasted then I dont see the harm in watching it. I'm probably wrong though. :S But technically it was given out for free via airwaves and im not using it to make any money.

Like if I watch startrek episodes online by searching for "free startrek episodes" I assume the sight makes money by advertising and in return I get to watch for free. If the site is doing something wrong and not paying up then they need to be shut down.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

radcen said:
Not only is the rationalizing in this thread incredible, but so is the misinformation. For all the effort many of you go to on almost every other subject to make sure accuracy and honesty is portrayed down to a gnat's arse, the willful disconnect here is mind-boggling. Just because you can download a song or video does not automatically mean it is approved legally to do so. In some cases it is, in some cases it is not.
Click to expand...
Downloading free music should not be illegal. The law is on the wrong side on this issue.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Luna Tick said:
You would think that really old TV shows (40 years or more) would have expired copyrights, but that's often not the case. Do you believe it's wrong to download such shows from unauthorized sources such as torrents?

Just to be clear, the question is about shows 40 years old or more which do not have expired copyrights.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is wrong. There are laws about how the copyright system works. If you don't like that, change them. I'll give you an example from the literary world....

The copyright on Bram Stoker's Dracula has been gone for quite a while, and that has been a concern to members of the Stoker family as it has made their claims to infringement on the characters very tough to support in recent years. Therefore, a couple years back Dacre Stoker, the great-grand nephew of Bram penned a sequel to the original novel, using the same characters in order to re-establish the family claim to the copyright. They didn't whine about it, they found an answer to the problem.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

dirtpoorchris said:
My general rule of thumb is if its been publicly broadcasted then I dont see the harm in watching it. I'm probably wrong though. :S But technically it was given out for free via airwaves and im not using it to make any money.
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actually it wasn't given away for free. It was broadcast with the intent of using it as a means to push various products. That is, unless you are talking about something from PBS.

So basically you're entering into an agreement to watch commercials, in exchange for access to the program.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Jerry said:
I think that's the pov I begin from....I taped songs while they were on the radio, I taped shows while they were airing on the TV....this was endorsed by the industry by selling me the tapes and recorders to do it, offering regular customers deals on these items, even.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned, if they're broadcasting it on the radio or TV, they're sending it out for free, they have no right to complain if I go and get the stuff they're giving away for free from an online source.
 
Re: Is it immoral to download from unauthorized sources (c) TV shows over 39 years ol

Copyright should be 14 years, no more, and then into the Public Domain.
 
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