View Poll Results: should you get gov retirement and SS

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  • yes you deserve both

    30 78.95%
  • No, get only your cushy gov retirement.

    8 21.05%
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Thread: Should retired government workers get SS

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    My brother in law just retired from a cushy gov job where he made 90K per year and openly bragged about how he spent most of the day shooting the breeze with other gov workers or reading books. He is now getting 70% of his pay and social security. It seems to me he is double dipping, getting a very generous retirement plan and SS. IMO if you are getting a tax payer funded retirement you are getting enough and should not get SS too.
    Not all government workers get such high salaries, or "cushy" retirement packages.
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    It depends. if you were a federal worker covered by the old Civil Service Retirement System and retired you do not draw SS. You never paid into it as a federal worker. FERS employess pay into SS and it is part of the retirement package created by Congress in 1987.

    "Congress created the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) in 1986, and it became effective on January 1, 1987. Since that time, new Federal civilian employees who have retirement coverage are covered by FERS.

    FERS is a retirement plan that provides benefits from three different sources: a Basic Benefit Plan, Social Security and the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP). Two of the three parts of FERS (Social Security and the TSP) can go with you to your next job if you leave the Federal Government before retirement. The Basic Benefit and Social Security parts of FERS require you to pay your share each pay period. Your agency withholds the cost of the Basic Benefit and Social Security from your pay as payroll deductions. Your agency pays its part too. Then, after you retire, you receive annuity payments each month for the rest of your life.

    The TSP part of FERS is an account that your agency automatically sets up for you. Each pay period your agency deposits into your account amount equal to 1% of the basic pay you earn for the pay period. You can also make your own contributions to your TSP account and your agency will also make a matching contribution. These contributions are tax-deferred. The Thrift Savings Plan is administered by the Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board."

    FERS Information


    also , unless your brother in law produced the paperwork for you to see I doubt he is drawing 70% as retirement. He would have to have worked 40+years to even come close.

    on a side note I am a retired federal employee. Your brother in law should be ashamed if in fact he sat around and shooting the breeze instead of working. Guess I was brough up differnt. Days work for a days pay. People like him should be fired.
    Just going by what I was told. He is still on the health care plan too. My wife just said he gets a $3700 a month check so he may be counting his other benefits with that, still damn nice retirement.

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    I didn't call it a Ponzi scheme. It's a pyramid scheme.
    It's neither one. It's an insurance scheme. Just like GEICO or Progressive, but in a different market. The post that you replied to was with respect to Ponzi schemes. Your post did nothing to change that focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    So if the working population is reduced, such as it is now, there are fewer people funding that pyramid, but the payouts continue to go up. What happens when it inverts? It crashes......
    Come on. Even the ridiculously pessimistic SS Trustees do not project that the system will ever invert/crash/collapse or any other cornball word you want to come up with. The Great Calamity that they foretell is that in 20-25 years, the SS Trust Fund will be exhausted (just as it was always intended to be), and the system will then be able to pay only 75% of scheduled benefits in perpetuity instead of 100% of scheduled benefits in perpetuity. Excpet that because of the way benefits are calculated, 75% of benefits then will be worth just about what 100% of scheduled benefits are worth today. Do you think that ranks up there with say, a major comet-impact? Well, it's just about as likely as well.

    And consider if you will that the worker-to-beneficiary ratio was 16.5-to-1 in 1950 and then plummeted to 5.1-to-1 by 1960. Why didn't SS shrivel up and die back then? By the 1970's, it ws down to 3.2-to-1, and thanks to the Great Bush Recession's recent erasure of ten million workers, it is down to 2.8-to-1 today. The SS Trustees think it will get to around 2.0 by 2040 and then simply stay there for 50 years. Is that what you are afraid of? And why are you only worried about retirees? Workers have other dependents to support as well. Such as children. With US birth rates hitting record lows again in 2011, what would you guess is happening to the worker-to-dependent ratio?
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 03-09-13 at 08:16 PM.

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    on a side note I am a retired federal employee. Your brother in law should be ashamed if in fact he sat around and shooting the breeze instead of working. Guess I was brough up differnt. Days work for a days pay. People like him should be fired.
    I am also a retired federal employee. When I first started, my manager made a point of telling me that there is nothing in government that can't wait until tomorrow. Thereafter I had numerous occasions to observe people industriously and conscientiously working away at jobs which should never have been assigned - the equivalent of digging a hole in the morning and filling it up in the afternoon. Others who had ideas for becoming more productive could never get a hearing. And there was a core of competent people who made it their business to serve the public because they believed in what they were doing.

    It is extremely difficult to fire an incompetent federal employee. It will take a large chunk of the supervisor's time for most of a year because he/she has to prove to a review board that said employee has received every chance at remedial education, counseling, reassignment, you name it - and it still hasn't worked. However there is a good reason for this, because federal managers can be just as petty and mean as anyone you have ever met. The practical solution is known as the Turkey Farm: a poor manager is put in charge of poor employees and the office is assigned to produce useless reports and meaningless appreciations until they retire.
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    My brother in law just retired from a cushy gov job where he made 90K per year and openly bragged about how he spent most of the day shooting the breeze with other gov workers or reading books. He is now getting 70% of his pay and social security. It seems to me he is double dipping, getting a very generous retirement plan and SS. IMO if you are getting a tax payer funded retirement you are getting enough and should not get SS too.
    Did your brother-in-law work for the state of California?

    I just discovered recently that I wasted my entire career. Instead of going to college, I should have hitchhiked to California right after high school and got a job as a billboard inspector. After 30 years at an absolute nothing job, I could have retired 20 years ago and be drawing $100,000/year retirement. Plus full medical coverage for life.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Raise the ceiling how? By requiring everybody to contribute more, or let people elect to do so?
    We do have a voluntary tax system, but not in that sense of the word.

    Meanwhile, when the wage cap was indexed by Reagan back in 1983, 90% of all earnings were below the cap. Thanks to all that income redistribution that Republicans have been doing since, only about 82% of earnings are below the cap today. We could offset that sort of tax drain by raising the wage cap to something like $175K rather than the current $113,700. That all by itself would wipe out about 40% of the projected 75-year SS shortfall. If we simply did away with wage cap altogether (as was done for Medicare taxes in 1983), SSTF would never run out of money. There are many other options as well of course.

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You are kidding me, right? The Federal Salary Council is made up of seven people -- five of which are the heads of Federal unions. Pulleeze.
    LOL! Do you think it was the Salary Council who did all that painstaking research and analysis? By law, that's done jointly by swarms of actual experts at OPM and BLS. Maybe it's time for another concession here.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I concede nothing.
    In fact, you have already conceded that just because a plan is a defined-benefit plan, it need not actually be the most generous plan on the planet. You had earlier made such a claim, but have since noted that it wasn't actually true. That's called a CONCESSION.

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Very true. Defined benefit plans used to be the norm, but inflation eventually made them worthless:
    Well, the ones without a COLA. Didn't used to matter so much, but the oil price shocks of the early 1970's put inflation risk on the map. That why a COLA was added to SS. Still, inflation risk is another one that employers want to dump off onto employees if they haven't done so already. It should start to dawn on people at some point that the actual "takers" in this economy are not the ones that Romney was pointing to. They are the ones that OWS was pointing to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Creative accounting has protected the government retirement plans for many years, but we are seeing the beginning of a tidal wave of local government bankruptcies which should, when realistically faced, end the defined benefit plans even in government.
    Well, plain old regular accounting plus plain old common sense rules about not moving pension funds through mergers, hostile takeovers, and leveraged buyouts in ways that turned them into stock-price-boosting cash on hand.

    And what percentage of how many municipal bankrupticies will you claim to have resulted from cushy employeee pension plans rather than from having been sold down the river by the very same bunch of fraudulent financial sheisters who engineered the 2007 credit crisis?
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 03-09-13 at 09:46 PM.

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    You don't have to buy things, you have a choice. taxes are paid or you go to jail, big difference.
    Give it a rest. Even survivalists buy things. Just ask Kristoffer Clausen.

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    also , unless your brother in law produced the paperwork for you to see I doubt he is drawing 70% as retirement. He would have to have worked 40+years to even come close.
    Not actually. As a CSRS employee, you can retire with no penalty at age 55 with 30 years of service. At that point your pension is 56.25% of the average of your three highest years of salary. The percentage increases by 2% per year for each year you continue to work after that. You would need just 14% to reach 70% which is seven more years on top of 30, for a total of 37 years. Still a pretty long time. You can't go any higher than 80% of the average high three, so after 42 years of service, you're just stuck there.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    on a side note I am a retired federal employee. Your brother in law should be ashamed if in fact he sat around and shooting the breeze instead of working. Guess I was brough up differnt. Days work for a days pay. People like him should be fired.
    Often they either are fired or the incredible wisdom of resigning is pointed out to them. Nobody loves a lummox.

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