View Poll Results: should you get gov retirement and SS

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38. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes you deserve both

    30 78.95%
  • No, get only your cushy gov retirement.

    8 21.05%
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Thread: Should retired government workers get SS

  1. #31
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    it should be means tested

    even if you paid into it your whole life

  2. #32
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    My brother in law just retired from a cushy gov job where he made 90K per year and openly bragged about how he spent most of the day shooting the breeze with other gov workers or reading books. He is now getting 70% of his pay and social security. It seems to me he is double dipping, getting a very generous retirement plan and SS. IMO if you are getting a tax payer funded retirement you are getting enough and should not get SS too.
    I retired from a Design Engineering job at a hand held electronics manufacturer (they made the news last week) and I'm collecting SS and getting a pension. This was part of the deal that I moved from a small firm to a large one to get. At the large private firm I had to deal with workers that did very little very slowly and they were getting the same benefits that I was. Also, before I left, a members of a church got too much control of who was RIFed and who got promotions etc. So how is this different than government jobs?

  3. #33
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    He's probably getting Social Security based on employment at another job. As a Federal employee, he doesn't pay into Social Security.
    All federal employees hired since 1983 are FERS employees who pay into Social Security. And their pensions at retirement consist of Social Security, a small service-based pension, plus whatever they may have managed to do with a 401-k. Those who were hired earlier and did not elect to convert to FERS in order to take advantage of the 401-k matching funds offered under FERS are still covered under the old CSRS system. They receive a much more generous service-based pension, no Social Security at all, plus whatever they have made out of a 401-k that only they ever paid into. CSRS employees have paid 7% of their gross pay into the program, since their first day on the job, all of it fully taxed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    IMO, all Federal/State employees should have 401K's. Not those overly-generous defined benefit plans they now enjoy. Maybe someday...
    At least at the federal level at least, they all do have 401-k's, but the rest of this is incorrect and also silly. There is no a priori generosity difference simply because one plan is a defined-benefit plan and another is a defined-contribution plan. That depends on the actual terms and numbers involved. The one and only thing that can be said for certain is that the move from defined-benefit plans to defined-contribution plans has been all and only a deliberate transfer of RISK from the employer to the employee. Once again, you are the stuckee. Imagine that.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 03-09-13 at 02:15 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    The one and only thing that can be said for certain is that the move from the defined-benefit plans to defioned-contribution plans has been all and only a deliberate transfer of RISK from the employer to the employee. Once again, you are the stuckee. Imagine that.
    A defined benefit plan is the most generous pension plan on planet earth. As a taxpayer, it would please me no end if these defined benefit plans disappeared in the public sector. They will . . . it'll just take a while.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, actually, you describe what everyone seems to think is the "plan" of Social Security, but it isn't. When you pay, you're explicitly paying for other people, not stocking up for yourself.
    Nothing but disinformation. SS is implemented by two separate sets of laws. One set describes the taxes that your employer must pay, including the authority to take half of it from your gross pay. The other set describes the benefits that SS should pay to an eligible retiree under various circumstances, two of which are how long you worked and how much you earned.

    Like any other insurance operation, SS pays current claims out of current premiums with any remainder being salted away as future reserves. But at the same time, the very employment and wages that resulted in such taxation are also increasing the amount of credits and earnings you will one day be eligible to benefit from. Thus while paying current taxes, you very much ARE stocking up for yourself in the future.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 03-09-13 at 02:29 PM.

  6. #36
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Nothing but disinformation. SS is impelented by two separate sets of laws. One set descibes the taxes that your employer must pay, inclduing the authority to take half of it from your gross pay. The other set describes the benefits that SS should pay to an eligible retiree under various circumstances, two of whcih are how long you worked and how much you earned.

    Like any other insurance operation, current claims are paid out of current premiums with any remainder being salted away as future reserves. But at the same time, the employment that resulted in the taxation is also increasing the amount of benefits you will one day be eligible for. Thus while paying current taxes, you very much ARE stocking up for yourself in the future.
    You describe it as "insurance," yet also claim it works like an individual retirement account. I therefore treat this with the all the seriousness it deserves.

    I understand you need to pick fights just to pick fights, which is why I tend to ignore anything you say, but if you're going to troll, you could at least not contradict the hell out yourself in the process. I didn't think it could actually happen, but you've managed to lower my regard for you even more.

    So, go tell it to someone who cares.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    A nice example of laughable garbage. Ponzi schemes fail because they lack access to a reliable income stream. If Charles Ponzi had actually beeen able to make money out of international postal-coupon arbitrage, his company might still be around today. But he couldn't, so it failed in six months instead. Social Security has been around for 75 years and will be for at least that long again. This is because it is plugged into perhaps the laregst and most reliable income stream in world history -- the wages of US workers. Social Security will continue to have income for as long as American workers do.
    So when a person's contributions go to pay for someone else's withdrawl, and the workforce grows and more contributions are made to support those who came before them, what would YOU call it?
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Exactly and that is double dipping.
    About as bad as having bank accounts at two different banks. What an outrage!

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    This is particularly true for judges and politicians.
    I'd go for unpaid politicians.....but this is going too far the other way...I do know that several generations ago, the Maine state congressmen were not paid for their "service".
    IMO, they are overpaid by a factor of 2X.....That the law allows them to vote on their compensation for what little they do...Talk about the need of reform.....
    Congresspersons are BY FAR the most egregiously underpaid executives in America. Ths salaries of federal judges are also an abomination and should at least be doubled if we are to have any hope of continuing to attract competent much less exceptional candidates to these positions. People want to drive a Cadillac and pay for a Yugo. That never works out well.

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    Re: Should retired government workers get SS

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I retired from a Design Engineering job at a hand held electronics manufacturer (they made the news last week) and I'm collecting SS and getting a pension. This was part of the deal that I moved from a small firm to a large one to get. At the large private firm I had to deal with workers that did very little very slowly and they were getting the same benefits that I was. Also, before I left, a members of a church got too much control of who was RIFed and who got promotions etc. So how is this different than government jobs?
    The difference is tax payers are paying your plush retirement fund if you retire from gov.

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