View Poll Results: Which side of the GOP will you support?

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  • TeaPartiers and Libertarians

    42 71.19%
  • RINO's and NeoCons

    17 28.81%
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Thread: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

  1. #81
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Yes indeed, constituents are a fickle lot. I have made it a hobby of mine to study independent/swing voters ever since I worked and campaigned for Perot back in 92. This group is the fickle lot, not those who associate themselves with either of the two major parties. It is also very interesting to note that those who classify themselves as independents has grown from 30% during Perot’s time to 40% today. This backs up your statement about the over all populace not being happing with either parties doings or programs as you put it. There is a growing dislike for both parties, more so on the GOP side than the Democratic side as the latest Gallup Poll show only 28% of the electorate identify themselves with the Republicans and 32% with the Democrats.

    What is interesting here is that Obama won by 4 points, the exact difference that is between the parties which mean independents split right down the middle, 50-50 for the republicans and democrats. In 2006 and 2008 independents went slightly for the democrats and in 2010 they went in a big way for the republicans and now we are back to an even split. This fickle group decides elections and which way they will go in 2014 is anybody’s guess at this time. But the bad new for the GOP is since they have less loyal members than the Democrats, they have to win around 53% of the independent vote to win. Democrats can win at least nationally by only gaining around 48% of this group.
    I think you've made a very accurate assessment here.

  2. #82
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    The republcian party is DESPERATELY trying to gather those its have disenfranchised. It is even trying to appeal to immigrants, while part of its party is pushing deportation of immigrants in the Central American regions but not the Chinese, Europeans, Slavic nations, etc.

    The republicans are also trying to woo women, by reversing their votes on VAWA. However, the republicans have allowed the social tea partiers and their hatreds to infiltrate their party for decades. They won't recover from being labeled the party of the upper 1% for years.
    The Tea Partiers are a relatively new group, not decades old as you state, and they were voted into office by their constituents to do exactly what they're doing...trying to slow down the overreaching federal government.

    And let's not conveniently overlook the fact that there are also very wealthy Democrats that are in the one percent group that you denigrate, and a lot of them are in Congress!

  3. #83
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    The republcian party is DESPERATELY trying to gather those its have disenfranchised. It is even trying to appeal to immigrants, while part of its party is pushing deportation of immigrants in the Central American regions but not the Chinese, Europeans, Slavic nations, etc.

    The republicans are also trying to woo women, by reversing their votes on VAWA. However, the republicans have allowed the social tea partiers and their hatreds to infiltrate their party for decades. They won't recover from being labeled the party of the upper 1% for years.
    The term "social tea partiers" is an oxymoron; the tea party movement is essentially libertarian and fiscal, without a great deal of social baggage. The attempt to tie social issues to the tea party is just lefty propaganda. As for the 1%, I suspect as many are Dems as Repubs.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #84
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I think you've made a very accurate assessment here.
    Thank You
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  5. #85
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    The Tea Partiers are a relatively new group, not decades old as you state, and they were voted into office by their constituents to do exactly what they're doing...trying to slow down the overreaching federal government.

    And let's not conveniently overlook the fact that there are also very wealthy Democrats that are in the one percent group that you denigrate, and a lot of them are in Congress!
    Here you go POL, the breakdown by party in congress

    73 House Democrats are millionaires
    101 House Republicans are millionaires
    37 Senate Democrats are millionaires
    30 Senate Republicans are millionaires
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  6. #86
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The term "social tea partiers" is an oxymoron; the tea party movement is essentially libertarian and fiscal, without a great deal of social baggage. The attempt to tie social issues to the tea party is just lefty propaganda. As for the 1%, I suspect as many are Dems as Repubs.
    It's strange to see the Left complaining more about the Tea Party than the Republicans are. You would almost have to think they don't like them, and are concerned that their movement might harm the Republican Party. Yeah, that's probably why they want them to go away!

  7. #87
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Here you go POL, the breakdown by party in congress

    73 House Democrats are millionaires
    101 House Republicans are millionaires
    37 Senate Democrats are millionaires
    30 Senate Republicans are millionaires
    Thanks, Pero.

    It looks close enough to me to challenge any foolish talking points in the future!

  8. #88
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Thanks, Pero.

    It looks close enough to me to challenge any foolish talking points in the future!
    Thanks to both of you!

    What jumps out to me is 55% of congress being millionaires

    Is it any wonder that they don't care what their policies do

    to us,the working or retired classes?

    Congress is where Obama should practice his class warfare!

  9. #89
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by penn1954 View Post
    Thanks to both of you!

    What jumps out to me is 55% of congress being millionaires

    Is it any wonder that they don't care what their policies do

    to us,the working or retired classes?

    Congress is where Obama should practice his class warfare!
    OH, BHO couldn't do that! Half his party is already upset with him for one reason or another...

  10. #90
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by ModerateGOP View Post
    I feel that you insulted me with the term RINO. I am definitely not a Republican in Name Only and I believe that the libertarians and Tea partiers are exactly that.

    What is the difference between Tea Party and Neocon?
    Tea parties orginally were - and mostly are, despite the infestation by various bachmanns - a populist coalition promoting libertarian ideas.

    Neocons are basically elitist leftists who had changed their targets, but not their methods or general worldview.

    It is most obvious in foreign policy, where wise and well-meaning invaders are supposed to be able to control (or even build from a scratch) enormously complex and unfamiliar systems ("nation-building"), but it also makes you think about the giant expansion of domestic programs and contempt for fiscal discipline that characterized much of the Bush Jr tenure.

    Let me quote the Mr.Neoconservative himself, Irving Kristol:

    "[Neocons] are impatient with the Hayekian notion that we are on "the road to serfdom." Neocons do not feel that kind of alarm or anxiety about the growth of the state in the past century, seeing it as natural, indeed inevitable. Because they tend to be more interested in history than economics or sociology, they know that the 19th-century idea, so neatly propounded by Herbert Spencer in his "The Man Versus the State," was a historical eccentricity. People have always preferred strong government to weak government [...]

    The steady decline in our democratic culture, sinking to new levels of vulgarity, does unite neocons with traditional conservatives--though not with those libertarian conservatives who are conservative in economics but unmindful of the culture. The upshot is a quite unexpected alliance between neocons, who include a fair proportion of secular intellectuals, and religious traditionalists. They are united on issues concerning the quality of education, the relations of church and state, the regulation of pornography, and the like, all of which they regard as proper candidates for the government's attention
    "

    (The Weekly Standard, Aug 25, 2003)

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