View Poll Results: Which side of the GOP will you support?

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  • TeaPartiers and Libertarians

    42 71.19%
  • RINO's and NeoCons

    17 28.81%
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Thread: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

  1. #91
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    With the exception of foreign policy, where their misadventures are well known and documented, I find the neocons to be effective allies and useful advocates. Their secular intellectualism brings rigor and high standards to their policy discussion. GWB's compassionate conservatism was not, in my view a product of neocon influence so much as an expression of evangelical charity. Looking at events realistically, I fear the big government ship sailed long ago and won't be returning to port anytime soon. I therefore focus on just a few things: strong defense, hard money and individual liberty. There are obviously other important issues, but those three make up my critical list.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #92
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    now i suppose we could spend some time debating what "engaged in combat" means, but i'm reasonably convinced that there aren't any plans to kill me by drone for complaining about **** on the internet, or for marching around with a sign, although i find signs tacky, and i abhor bumper stickers.
    Just make sure if you do the marching around with a sign thing your groups keeps about 300m dispersion amongst themselves. This will cut down on casualties
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  3. #93
    Haters gon' hate
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    Is it possible to side with the Libertarians and not the TEA Party?
    Very. The Tea Party, though it is making a move back to the Libertarian side, is simply the redneck division of the GOP right now. Slowly but surely people like Rand Paul are moving it back to it's roots. It's disappointing to see the turn that the Tea Party took from it's roots of an anti-Bush, grass roots movement.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  4. #94
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Very. The Tea Party, though it is making a move back to the Libertarian side, is simply the redneck division of the GOP right now. Slowly but surely people like Rand Paul are moving it back to it's roots. It's disappointing to see the turn that the Tea Party took from it's roots of an anti-Bush, grass roots movement.
    Redneck division, huh? I'm taking my battalion and going home. I'm not taking that lying down, unless it's on the couch at home. With a beer.

  5. #95
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Thanks, Pero.

    It looks close enough to me to challenge any foolish talking points in the future!
    Be my guest.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  6. #96
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The term "social tea partiers" is an oxymoron; the tea party movement is essentially libertarian and fiscal, without a great deal of social baggage. The attempt to tie social issues to the tea party is just lefty propaganda. As for the 1%, I suspect as many are Dems as Repubs.
    Hardly. That's the disarray of the republican/tea party.

    Tea Party anti-abortion ad too graphic for YouTube but not TV

    Tea Party anti-abortion ad too graphic for YouTube but not TV

    Read more: Tea Party anti-abortion ad too graphic for YouTube but not TV

    Anti-abortion Tea Party congressman demands mistress get an abortion

    Tea Party Congressman Scott DesJarlais of Tennessee is facing national scrutiny because damning evidence has surfaced which implicates him in adultery and shows him negotiating with his sexual partner outside of his marriage to have an abortion.

    DesJarlais was swept into office along with many other Tea Party candidates in the 2010 Midterm elections. The congressman ran on a platform of being anti-abortion, pro-god, and pro-morality. Now it seems that DesJarlais, a registered physician, is at odds with his own political platform.

    This story was originally broken by The Huffington Post. The unknown female in question was actually a patient of the good doctor, who previously has been accused of holding a gun in his mouth for "hours in one instance." However, his alleged suicidal fantasies are not the purpose of this column. Court transcripts plainly showcase the hypocrisy of the morally superior Congressman:

    "DesJarlais: You told me you'd have an abortion, and now we're getting too far along without one.

    Woman: You told me you would have time to go with me and everything.
    Tea Party Nation: Gay Equality will 'Turn Marriage into a Freak Show' | Right Wing Watch

    Tea Party Nation: Gay Equality will 'Turn Marriage into a Freak Show'
    Submitted by Brian Tashman on Tuesday, 7/31/2012 2:15 pm

    Tea Party Nation’s Judson Phillips told members in an email today that their movement cannot avoid the issue of same-sex marriage, as it threatens to destroy the family, replace freedom with anarchy and “turn marriage into a freak show involving 3 men, 5 women, 2 dogs and a Bengal tiger.”

    Gay marriage is often identified as a social issue and many in the conservative and Tea Party movement say leave social issues alone.

    While we can have that debate as to whether we should include social issues or not, this is an issue that is not purely a social issue.
    WANTING something to be representative of something doesn't make it so. The tea party has a LONG list of social issues they vote on.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  7. #97
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    With the exception of foreign policy, where their misadventures are well known and documented, I find the neocons to be effective allies and useful advocates. Their secular intellectualism brings rigor and high standards to their policy discussion. GWB's compassionate conservatism was not, in my view a product of neocon influence so much as an expression of evangelical charity. Looking at events realistically, I fear the big government ship sailed long ago and won't be returning to port anytime soon. I therefore focus on just a few things: strong defense, hard money and individual liberty. There are obviously other important issues, but those three make up my critical list.
    It's neoliberal

    Neoliberalism from Reagan to Clinton :: Monthly Review

    . . .

    The book’s central indictment is that President Clinton, in submitting his welfare, budget, and tax bills from 1995-1997, “signaled surrender: the Reagan revolution was going to achieve its major goals.” The Reagan neoliberal program of small government, tax cuts, deregulation, free trade, and monetarist financial policies was more than just consolidated. In signing the Welfare Reform Bill of 1996 and the subsequent 1997 budget compromise, Clinton broke the back of the New Deal. The government commitment, however modest and poorly implemented, to protect the poor against the worst ravages of the market was thus ended. A central redistributional bargain crumbled as well: the top 20 percent of income earners in the United States would gain after-tax relief, while the bottom 20 percent of Americans would further suffer the marginalization of deepening poverty. The bulk of the text is devoted to a compelling examination of the neoliberal “revolution in economic policy” against postwar Keynesian demand management and welfare policies. Meeropol emphasizes the policy continuity between Reagan and Clinton over the chimerical differences of presidential campaigns.

    Meeropol’s story of the right-wing ascendancy begins in 1979 when Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker began one part of the economic counterrevolution against the New Deal. Volcker imposed the stringent monetarist anti-inflation policies that persisted into the 1990s. Formally, the Federal Reserve simply moved from the so-called targeting of interest rates according to aggregate demand conditions, to concentrate on controlling the aggregate movements of the money supply and letting the markets determine the rates. As a consequence of the tightening of money supply growth the prime rate rose to 12.5 percent by 1981, with the Fed fund rate eventually peaking at 19.1 percent. Rather than oppose such monetary policies, as administrations had done so often in the past, Reagan supported the Fed’s stance. According to Meeropol, monetary policy was now safely in the hands of neoliberal ideologues and financial interests.

    Reagan’s tax and budgetary policies put in place the other part. In contrast to the sentiments of the New Deal, Reagan propounded that “the most important cause of our economic problems has been the government itself.” The cure prescribed combined tax cuts to increase market incentives and cuts in overall government spending (with the crucial exemption of the military). The Budget and Reconciliation Act of 1981 began a long series of program cuts, and expanded means testing of entitlements, while introducing across-the-board tax cuts that favored the redistribution of income to the rich. The key measure, whose legacy continues to this day in a process of competitive taxation pressures between jurisdictions, was the Recovery Tax Act of 1981. It cut personal income tax brackets, particularly in the highest brackets, and accelerated capital depreciation, substantively “shifting the burden away from capital income.” Meeropol details other measures of the neoliberal counter-revolution of Reagan’s first term: tax bracket indexation, deregulation of monopolistic industries, reversal of equal employment initiatives, reduction of welfare benefits, and cuts to food stamps and other welfare supports.

    . . .
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

  8. #98
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Hardly. That's the disarray of the republican/tea party.

    Tea Party anti-abortion ad too graphic for YouTube but not TV




    Anti-abortion Tea Party congressman demands mistress get an abortion



    Tea Party Nation: Gay Equality will 'Turn Marriage into a Freak Show' | Right Wing Watch



    WANTING something to be representative of something doesn't make it so. The tea party has a LONG list of social issues they vote on.
    The fact that some candidates and would-be leaders (of whom most people have never heard) may spout off has no bearing on the views of members of the tea party movement. They are useful only to lefties trying to propagate a false meme.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  9. #99
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    there is a civil war in the GOP it is between the wacko right-wing tea party types and moderates like Chris Christie.
    Considering that Chris Christie was elected on the strength of tea parties, and does pretty much what they wanted him to do - successfully so far, and remains enormously popular with NJ tea parties...

    Eh, that word, "idiots" that you have used repeatedly - isn't it usually used to describe people who, like, have no idea what they are talking about?

    From the liberal New York Times:

    "few would deny that he is a masterly speaker, and the ideal one to deliver the keynote speech at the Republican National Convention, the first at which the establishment will join the Tea Party insurgents who have both lifted the party and thrown it for a loop.

    [...] But no politician speaks the unvarnished vernacular of the Tea Party better — pointing fingers at public sector unions, speaking of the need to make what he calls “the hard choices.”

    While few politicians are better at staying on message, Mr. Christie also manages to seem unscripted, thrilling the Tea Party faithful who demand a leader who will not sugarcoat the truth
    "


    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/us...y-pleaser.html

  10. #100
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    Re: The GOP Civil War: Choose a side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Not exactly. The neoliberals represent a strain of liberal thinking that reacted against both the feckless leftism of McGovern and the arid centrism of Carter. Paul Tsongas and Michael Dukakis were representative. Bill Clinton was their apogee; their current expression is to be found in the Democratic Leadership Council.

    Neocons trace their ancestry (or their fathers' ancestry) to the far left or radical politics of the 20th century (see Horowitz, Kristol). Many have family connections to the old Partisan Review. Disproportionately Jewish, many are strongly pro-Israel.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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