View Poll Results: Would you rather live in another country?

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  • Yes

    16 21.62%
  • No

    47 63.51%
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Thread: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

  1. #151
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    When will you reach 'that line'? seems to me the being forced to support those who 'wont', around 10% of the population, has been around for a lifetime. Are you including corporations that don't pay taxes as well?
    Corporations don't actually 'pay' taxes, they pass them through to the consumer in their pricing.

    So let's review the options, stay and 'fight' to make those who are poor pay more, force corporations to pony up more (and threaten to leave like you are) OR you leave this country for another with LESS rights and/or MORE taxes.
    Where did I say force the poor to pay more? Please quote.

    If you flee to Europe you will be forced to contribute (to your detriment as any money out of your pocket is a detriment) at a far larger scale- you will learn what VAT means but good.
    What part of 'betterment of man' was I not clear on?

    Flee to the third world and you will have little say in anything unless you can bribe officials to look the other way, and hire enough security to keep the bandits off you... not even Joko's 50 round drum will save you down there...
    Not planning on a third world country.
    I understand the every man for himself mindset, but it is WE the people, not ME the people...
    It shouldn't be every man for himself, but at what point is a detriment to your own survival in supporting other people. Give away your last slice of bread so another may eat?

    I see voluntary contributions to the poor about the same way I see voluntary contributions to national defense...
    Note the word voluntary. Required by threats of fines, penalties, levies and/or imprisonment is not voluntary. I do plenty in the voluntary manner.

    We'd be speaking Russian right about now...
    More likely German or Japanese, but whatever.
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

  2. #152
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Corporations don't actually 'pay' taxes, they pass them through to the consumer in their pricing.

    Where did I say force the poor to pay more? Please quote.

    What part of 'betterment of man' was I not clear on?

    Not planning on a third world country.
    It shouldn't be every man for himself, but at what point is a detriment to your own survival in supporting other people. Give away your last slice of bread so another may eat?

    Note the word voluntary. Required by threats of fines, penalties, levies and/or imprisonment is not voluntary. I do plenty in the voluntary manner.

    More likely German or Japanese, but whatever.
    if corporations don't pay taxes why do they threaten to leave if the loopholes are closed and rates not reduced?

    I must have confused you for another poster...all that 'taker' whine after the election and how 51% do not pay taxes. my bad... you hold no grudge against these people?

    Actually you are not the least bit clear on what 'betterment' means...

    I can assure you we are no where near the point where your last slice of bread is the only thing you have. that is way too much drama, and sounded a lot like another poster who does love the 'taker' and 51% don't pay taxes rant. if you have plenty to give away then the whine is moot.

    Neither Germany or japan will let you just come on in and have full citizenship. You will be a second class citizen still paying under a tax system that is far more 'socialist' then anything we have.

    And it ain't voluntary....

  3. #153
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    if corporations don't pay taxes why do they threaten to leave if the loopholes are closed and rates not reduced?
    Because most companies don't WANT to raise their prices to absorb the additional taxes. The American consumer is all about cheaper cheaper cheaper. If the taxes on a corp get raised, the prices go up, and the consumer whines.

    I must have confused you for another poster...all that 'taker' whine after the election and how 51% do not pay taxes. my bad... you hold no grudge against these people?
    Not a grudge per se. I don't like it, but I myself cannot fix it, and IMO we have a government who wants it that way, for the dependency thing.

    Actually you are not the least bit clear on what 'betterment' means...
    Taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, research and developement of better and effecient ways to address those needs, protection of our borders (meant in a multitude of ways: immigration and attack) and taking care of the infrastructure (roads) so we contune to be able to travel as freely as we have in the past.

    I can assure you we are no where near the point where your last slice of bread is the only thing you have. that is way too much drama, and sounded a lot like another poster who does love the 'taker' and 51% don't pay taxes rant. if you have plenty to give away then the whine is moot.
    I don't expect SS or MCare to exist as they are today, when my time to retire comes, so I provide for myself. I have certain medical issues that must be addressed on a daily basis, and I'm sure more to come. Since I can't rely on what has already been taken from me, and will continue to be taken from me to support those who have become eligible, I judge what is not disposable income, and put aside for my future.

    Neither Germany or japan will let you just come on in and have full citizenship. You will be a second class citizen still paying under a tax system that is far more 'socialist' then anything we have.
    That was in regards to what language we would be speaking if we didn't have our military protecting us.
    And it ain't voluntary....
    No, it ain't.
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  4. #154
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Because most companies don't WANT to raise their prices to absorb the additional taxes. The American consumer is all about cheaper cheaper cheaper. If the taxes on a corp get raised, the prices go up, and the consumer whines.

    Not a grudge per se. I don't like it, but I myself cannot fix it, and IMO we have a government who wants it that way, for the dependency thing.

    Taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, research and developement of better and effecient ways to address those needs, protection of our borders (meant in a multitude of ways: immigration and attack) and taking care of the infrastructure (roads) so we contune to be able to travel as freely as we have in the past.

    I don't expect SS or MCare to exist as they are today, when my time to retire comes, so I provide for myself. I have certain medical issues that must be addressed on a daily basis, and I'm sure more to come. Since I can't rely on what has already been taken from me, and will continue to be taken from me to support those who have become eligible, I judge what is not disposable income, and put aside for my future.

    That was in regards to what language we would be speaking if we didn't have our military protecting us.
    No, it ain't.
    Wait, you JUST typed corporations don't pay taxes, they pass them onto the consumer and yet NOW you say they don't want to pass the tax on because of consumer pressure.... which is it???

    The dependency thing is funny, less than 15% of the citizens depend on 'the Gubmint', I'd say far more do that actually work for it then depend it. Exclude those who PAY into 'the system' and you again have a minority. But your 'solution' is to flee to a country that is far more socialist than we are. Out of the frying pan and into the fire!

    I kinda thought most of what you consider 'betterment' was already being done. Well not attacking immigrants- not sure what you mean by that.

    I see your medical issues as telling in this. I don't believe you can make and squirrel enough away on your own, even at the current tax rates- you have claimed the line hasn't been crossed yet. Without addressing the cost of healthcare as an overall issue I don't see any of us affording private healthcare. I see Mcare and SS payments as going to be continued, even strengthened as our nation's voters grow older and medical costs beat every other increase in our lives.

    But I can now see why you'd go to Germany- their medical care is far more accessable and more extensive than ours, even with their taxes. The exact opposite of what you claim you want here.

    The military is a 'We the people' organization, not big on 'Me the people'. When we beat the Nazis and the Roosians we did it with a conscript army... a form of 'slavery' as the right wing sees their lot in life now...slaves to the Gubmint.

    Now if we had a 'Me the people' gubmint back when Hitler ravaged Europe or the Iron Curtain threatened to seal us off from major markets do you think we would still be free and speaking our peculiar from of English?

    A 'Me the people' government would never work... is why the Libertarian party never does well.

  5. #155
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    By "fun" I don't mean, like, nightlife. Business and science are by far more dynamic here. The quality of intellectual discourse and cultural development is also actually higher - although you do have to "dig for it".

    As for the "street culture" - it depends on the place, I guess. Nothing seems to be wrong with Boston, New York or Seattle (three cities I am most familiar with).
    I don't necessarily mean nightlife either. I kind of mean arts, projects, etc.

    Also... I gotta disagree on intellectual discourse too. It's another thing I have to dig for.

    Well, those cities you name are the freaks of America. Although they still don't really compare to what I've seen in other places. I'm not a fan of New York these days -- it's turning into an oversized yuppie town. But I would actually love to move to Seattle. It seems like the best compromise between the things I loved elsewhere, and the things that ultimately make me stay in the US.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 03-07-13 at 02:00 PM.

  6. #156
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    We can carpool to Canada. It is like the US but more like Uncle Sam on weed........
    Screw that. Latin America or Asia's where you want to go if the United States ever goes kaput. After all, if we go, we're probably taking Canada and Europe down with us.

    There are all kinds of opportunities for a clean cut military trained white guy in China, and Latin women are hot as hell.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-07-13 at 02:03 PM.

  7. #157
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Wait, you JUST typed corporations don't pay taxes, they pass them onto the consumer and yet NOW you say they don't want to pass the tax on because of consumer pressure.... which is it???
    Do you want to be forced to price your goods or services to the top end of a market? They don't want to pass on ADDITIONAL taxes (such as closing loopholes would do)

    The dependency thing is funny, less than 15% of the citizens depend on 'the Gubmint', I'd say far more do that actually work for it then depend it. Exclude those who PAY into 'the system' and you again have a minority. But your 'solution' is to flee to a country that is far more socialist than we are. Out of the frying pan and into the fire!
    You obviously missed my very first post. I RATHER stay here, but they don't make the choice easy. Canada, which is what I posted as an alternative, may be more socialistic in base but with a lot less government involvement in personal lives.

    I kinda thought most of what you consider 'betterment' was already being done.
    And paying more and more for it, because I consider the government to be very inefficient at it.

    Well not attacking immigrants- not sure what you mean by that.
    Immigrants AND attack, separate items, usually separated by the word AND or OR. As in protected from.

    I see your medical issues as telling in this. I don't believe you can make and squirrel enough away on your own, even at the current tax rates- you have claimed the line hasn't been crossed yet. Without addressing the cost of healthcare as an overall issue I don't see any of us affording private healthcare. I see Mcare and SS payments as going to be continued, even strengthened as our nation's voters grow older and medical costs beat every other increase in our lives.
    No one is responsible for my care other than me. And I have squirreled away, barring a catastrophe, enough to see me in into my first years of 'retirement'. If SS and MCare still exists, bonus. If not, then lifes been a hell of a ride.
    But I can now see why you'd go to Germany- their medical care is far more accessable and more extensive than ours, even with their taxes. The exact opposite of what you claim you want here.
    Didn't say Germany, and I wouldn't go there if I were to have to make a decision.

    The military is a 'We the people' organization, not big on 'Me the people'. When we beat the Nazis and the Roosians we did it with a conscript army... a form of 'slavery' as the right wing sees their lot in life now...slaves to the Gubmint.
    Have I ever said we do not need a government of some sort? Do please quote it, I'd be intersted in seeing it.

    Now if we had a 'Me the people' gubmint back when Hitler ravaged Europe or the Iron Curtain threatened to seal us off from major markets do you think we would still be free and speaking our peculiar from of English?

    A 'Me the people' government would never work... is why the Libertarian party never does well.
    See comment above.
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

  8. #158
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Getting in the U.S. legally is a bitch.
    But most other countries have that same problem too.
    Actually if you have money we will let pretty much anyone in.

  9. #159
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Screw that. Latin America or Asia's where you want to go if the United States ever goes kaput. After all, if we go, we're probably taking Canada and Europe down with us.

    There are all kinds of opportunities for a clean cut military trained white guy in China, and Latin women are hot as hell.
    I know a LOT of people from college who have gone overseas to work in China. If I were single or childless, I'd consider it for a few years.

  10. #160
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    Re: Given the changing times, would you rather live in another country?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    ....and Latin women are hot as hell.
    I second that motion...
    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
    -Benjamin Franklin

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