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Should We Always Support the Troops?

Should We Always Support the Troops

  • Total voters
    51
phattonez said:
Been unable to come up with real arguments there? Sounds like it.
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When I'm told you are in charge of the War Department, then I will waste my time on you. Until then, not so much.
 
So if American troops go over to the Middle East and start raping women for fun and sport, should I support them?

Yeaaaaaaaah I'm gonna say no.
 
Maenad said:
When I'm told you are in charge of the War Department, then I will waste my time on you. Until then, not so much.
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Ah yes, you are so important that you hold your opinion only to federal officials. I didn't know I was speaking to such a big-shot.
 
phattonez said:
Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
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No. We all have choices and we all must take responsibility for those choices.
 
phattonez said:
Either way, you treat them as less than human if you deprive them of a choice.
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:shrug: They seem to disagree. Most of us think (though agreeably in hindsight) that it's an honor to serve others. I would say that doing so has made be better and more human than I was before.
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: They seem to disagree. Most of us think (though agreeably in hindsight) that it's an honor to serve others. I would say that doing so has made be better and more human than I was before.
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Serving others is fine; judging the morality of actions is an integral part of being human.
 
Gipper said:
So if American troops go over to the Middle East and start raping women for fun and sport, should I support them?

Yeaaaaaaaah I'm gonna say no.
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I am not going to say it never happens but the incidents are few and far between.......
 
cpwill said:
Sort of. The term would work if we had the draft. However, the military is voluntary "slaves" - perhaps you could more accurately compare their situation to that of Indentured Servants.
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That, and we get paid. :)
 
I have the highest regard for our military and think all of should. That said, I have become a lot less hawkish about using the military over the years. Complex reasons for this mainly rooted in recent justifications for war, human life is valuable, once a life is gone only God can bring them back and the suffering for those who survive war is incalculable. But to the OP, even when our troops go off the deep end, I think PTSD should be considered and I tend to try to give them the benefit of that doubt.
 
ABSOLUTELY!!!!! how you support them is another matter....

Thank them for their service and do what ever you can to bring them home! Politicians wage war, not our troops!
 
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You should always support the troops. The only exception is if they turn on their own people.

If the troops are in such wars and do such things, it is our fault as the people for electing the people that would arrange for such a thing to happen.
 
Support the troops unless you are certain that the individual you are considering has personally committed war crimes. So, in almost ALL cases, support your troops.

I believe Iraq was an unjust war, but I am very grateful for the troops that went to fight in that war nonetheless. They signed up to protect, they followed orders to engage what my representatives told them was the enemy, and for that they deserve nothing but unreserved gratitude. I would like to beat my representatives silly for their culpability in it, but I'd have to start with myself, first. I really didn't do all they I personally could to try and prevent what I felt to be a completely unjust war. As an aside: We must first do all that we personally can to prevent sending our troops into unjust wars. That is one of the most important parts of honoring their promise.

So, the moral of the story is: First consider whether YOU yourself have done what you should to honor your ideals about such an incredibly serious matter. Then consider whether your representatives did what they should have done to represent what you made exceedingly clear was your position. But, at no point do you turn on the people who have promised to do as your representatives order them to do.
 
phattonez said:
Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
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I am in the military, and I can tell you, that if you do not support the war you should not pander to us. I do not want your support if you do not believe in what I am doing. The military is a volunteer force and its members believe in the path we are taking, otherwise they would not volunteer to join the military. Conflicts just don't start overnight. There generally is a common knowledge as to who our potential enemies are. And it generally is fairly easy to see who we will probably be in the next conflict with. So if a Soldier, Airmen or Marine joins the military they are effectively saying they agree to support the governments geopolitical agenda.

So no, if you dont support the war, don't support the troops. I certainly would appreciate it more than being pondered to and smiled at while at the same time you walk the picket line protesting the money that goes into giving our troops what they need to fight the war.
 
Capster78 said:
I am in the military, and I can tell you, that if you do not support the war you should not pander to us. I do not want your support if you do not believe in what I am doing. The military is a volunteer force and its members believe in the path we are taking, otherwise they would not volunteer to join the military. Conflicts just don't start overnight. There generally is a common knowledge as to who our potential enemies are. And it generally is fairly easy to see who we will probably be in the next conflict with. So if a Soldier, Airmen or Marine joins the military they are effectively saying they agree to support the governments geopolitical agenda.

So no, if you dont support the war, don't support the troops. I certainly would appreciate it more than being pondered to and smiled at while at the same time you walk the picket line protesting the money that goes into giving our troops what they need to fight the war.
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But, I would never believe in shorting the money for a war in which we were already engaged. That would not honor the troops at all, to put them in danger by not giving them everything they need. Yet, I would still be opposed to the war. Sorry, but I am still going to be grateful for your promise to do as my representatives see fit to order you to do, and your fulfillment of that promise. You can like it or not as you see fit :roll:
 
Dezaad said:
But, I would never believe in shorting the money for a war in which we were already engaged. That would not honor the troops at all, to put them in danger by not giving them everything they need. Yet, I would still be opposed to the war. Sorry, but I am still going to be grateful for your promise to do as my representatives see fit to order you to do, and your fulfillment of that promise. You can like it or not as you see fit :roll:
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While it would be nice if this were the case, it largely was not during both conflicts. During both conflicts the picket lines around the countrie protested the funding of both wars. Which is why many good soldiers died in poorly built humvee's that did not meet the needs of the solders. Many of whom were killed in ambushes and roadside bombs. The funding was held up for things like armored plating and proper protection gear for troops on the front lines. I know of many good soldiers who's lives could have been saved if the military leaders were listened to and they were given what they were asking for. I place the blame on many of the American deaths in Iraq solely on the heads of those protesting the funding and the troop increases that were asked by the commanders on the ground. So yes, I am a bit sour for the support the troops but not the war crowd. And I am not at all ashamed to admit it. If support the troops but not the war means protesting a war to the extent that it impedes the war and gets more of our guys killed then it needed to, then I DO NOT WANT YOUR SUPPORT!! I would rather the government not be able to afford to go to war in the first place and just not send us.
 
Capster78 said:
While it would be nice if this were the case, it largely was not during both conflicts. During both conflicts the picket lines around the countrie protested the funding of both wars. Which is why many good soldiers died in poorly built humvee's that did not meet the needs of the solders. Many of whom were killed in ambushes and roadside bombs. The funding was held up for things like armored plating and proper protection gear for troops on the front lines. I know of many good soldiers who's lives could have been saved if the military leaders were listened to and they were given what they were asking for. I place the blame on many of the American deaths in Iraq solely on the heads of those protesting the funding and the troop increases that were asked by the commanders on the ground. So yes, I am a bit sour for the support the troops but not the war crowd. And I am not at all ashamed to admit it. If support the troops but not the war means protesting a war to the extent that it impedes the war and gets more of our guys killed then it needed to, then I DO NOT WANT YOUR SUPPORT!! I would rather the government not be able to afford to go to war in the first place and just not send us.
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Ok, how about I say "you suck for fighting in the Iraq war, a war which I hated". But, I support the rest of the troops. And I would never impede a war effort already under way in the manner you describe. Better?
 
Dezaad said:
So, the moral of the story is: First consider whether YOU yourself have done what you should to honor your ideals about such an incredibly serious matter. Then consider whether your representatives did what they should have done to represent what you made exceedingly clear was your position. But, at no point do you turn on the people who have promised to do as your representatives order them to do.
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First, of course, I enlisted during war. Second, yes. Third, what?
 
ecofarm said:
First, of course, I enlisted during war. Second, yes. Third, what?
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Why don't you tell me what you think I am saying, because I have no idea what you are talking about here. It seems like you think there is disagreement between us, but I don't know what you think it is.

Just to attempt to clarify, the YOU in my statement is directed at American civilians who believe a particular war is unjust. So, if you believed a war was justified, and furthermore you became enlisted, then my post doesn't apply to you at all. I am talking about social rules for people who believe a war is unjustified and are civilians. Does that clarify?
 
Dezaad said:
Why don't you tell me what you think I am saying, because I have no idea what you are talking about here. It seems like you think there is disagreement between us, but I don't know what you think it is.

Just to attempt to clarify, the YOU in my statement is directed at American civilians who believe a particular war is unjust. So, if you believed a war was justified, and furthermore you became enlisted, then my post doesn't apply to you at all. I am talking about social rules for people who believe a war is unjustified and are civilians. Does that clarify?
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So your system of evaluation only works for one perspective? Or can everyone consider it.
 
Capster78 said:
I am in the military, and I can tell you, that if you do not support the war you should not pander to us. I do not want your support if you do not believe in what I am doing. The military is a volunteer force and its members believe in the path we are taking, otherwise they would not volunteer to join the military. Conflicts just don't start overnight. There generally is a common knowledge as to who our potential enemies are. And it generally is fairly easy to see who we will probably be in the next conflict with. So if a Soldier, Airmen or Marine joins the military they are effectively saying they agree to support the governments geopolitical agenda.

So no, if you dont support the war, don't support the troops. I certainly would appreciate it more than being pondered to and smiled at while at the same time you walk the picket line protesting the money that goes into giving our troops what they need to fight the war.
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I think you can support the troops and be against particular wars or conflicts. It are the elected officials who pick what those conflicts will be, not the troops. So unless stated otherwise, I always take criticism of the war as criticism of our elected officials, not criticism of the men and women in uniform. And politicians shouldn’t get to deflect criticism by shouting Support the Troops. Frankly, I think those who want to bring our troops home from what they believe to be unjust wars are our greatest supporters. And I have more respect for those who march and engage in civil disobedience to that end more than people who simply slap a “Support the Troops” stickers on their bumper.

And then there are the d!cks who just think all service members are monsters but I don’t give them the time of day.
 
ecofarm said:
So your system of evaluation only works for one perspective? Or can everyone consider it.
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My system of evaluation is only relevant for the set of people I have indicated.

If I disagree with an unjust war, evaluate what I have done to prevent it. If I have not done everything I can, then be mad at myself, first. Then, evaluate whether my representative agreed with me. If s/he doesn't, then be mad at my representative. But at all times be grateful to the service people who made a promise to fight on my behalf, and fulfilled it.

If you agree with a war, then there is no potential for cognitive dissonance for you to resolve regarding whether to honor the troops, so my system of evaluation doesn't apply to you. If, furthermore, you are a service person, then I am not sure why you would be considering whether you should honor yourself or your fellow service people. But, yes, whether you agree with a particular war or not, you should. You made a promise and kept it with honor and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, regardless.

On the other hand, everyone can consider my evaluation, but when you already agree with a war, or are already a service person, I would think the conclusions would be more automatic. For example, I agreed that the war in Afghanistan was fully justified, so my support for the whole endeavor was completely automatic. I didn't really have to think about why a service person fighting in that war deserved my respect.
 
Dezaad said:
I didn't really have to think about why a service person fighting in that war deserved my respect.
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But you do for Iraq vets?
 
ecofarm said:
But you do for Iraq vets?
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No, it is automatic now toward them, too, because I have already resolved the cognitive dissonance. The resolution of that dissonance was not automatic, however. I resolved it soon after hostilities arose.

I am completely grateful to them for fighting on my behalf, and without reservation. I am just as grateful to them as I am for the Afghanistan vets. One of the things I most appreciate is the reason they chose to fight (this goes for both wars): To protect us so that we can retain our liberties, including the liberty to think our government sucks for getting us into an unjustified war.

If you are thinking that my support of Iraq vets is half-hearted, I can assure you that it is not. I have made donations on behalf of these troops with complete generosity of spirit and gratitude. I have personally expressed my gratitude directly to Iraq service people I have met, when it was appropriate to do so (when I felt like it wouldn't make them feel uncomfortable to hear it).
 
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