View Poll Results: Should We Always Support the Troops

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  • Yes

    36 63.16%
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    21 36.84%
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Thread: Should We Always Support the Troops?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    This is my first post in this thread, so I'm not really back to anything. But I was suggesting that the soldier ought to have some discretion. We place such a high value on individual choices and beliefs in this country, perhaps asking a soldier to give that up completely is too much to ask.

    I think we do realize that. It's one of the main reasons we like to stay civilians. And I agree, war ought to be fought to destroy a dangerous enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible. Unfortunately, we don't fight them that way. We fight to occupy.

    And maybe that's not how it ought to be. The idea that not fighting is something that ought to be punished comes from ancient times when basically anyone who wasn't royalty was little more than a slave. The life and liberty of a soldier was irrelevant. Only their ability to expand the personal power of their ruler mattered. Maybe it's time to rethink that tradition.
    As for your discretion be advised the military is a team, there is no I in team. A soldier is govern by the UCMJ and the Code of Conduct.

    Fighting to occupy, I have to agree with, the biggest mistake in Iraq and Afghanistan in my opinion was this nation building crap and forcing democracy on them. We should fight a war to win, win it quickly and then go home. Again my opinion.

    No, not for a soldier. As I stated, the military is a team, a very cohesive team. It is a team that strips individuality away. I was a Drill Sergeant once, what we did was first break down the recruits, we did this to get them away from their civilian thinking and then formed and molded them into soldiers. Into a unit where the term brothers in arms apply. To a soldier any war congress approves and the president sends them to is a justified war. A soldier can have it no other way or he wouldn't be performing his constitutional duties of protecting and defending the United States.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    "War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But if/when they do?
    Then your poll question is too simplistic and shouldn't be answered.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And maybe that's not how it ought to be.
    That is precisely how it ought to be. We have civilian control over the military in this country for good damn reason.

  5. #45
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
    Yes. If they are doing those things, look to the leaders who give those orders, not those following the orders.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Fighting to occupy, I have to agree with, the biggest mistake in Iraq and Afghanistan in my opinion was this nation building crap and forcing democracy on them. We should fight a war to win, win it quickly and then go home. Again my opinion.
    Preach it!

    No, not for a soldier. As I stated, the military is a team, a very cohesive team. It is a team that strips individuality away. I was a Drill Sergeant once, what we did was first break down the recruits, we did this to get them away from their civilian thinking and then formed and molded them into soldiers. Into a unit where the term brothers in arms apply. To a soldier any war congress approves and the president sends them to is a justified war. A soldier can have it no other way or he wouldn't be performing his constitutional duties of protecting and defending the United States.
    That may be the way it is, but that might not be how it has to be. Especially with the increasing mechanization of warfare. I'm really just conjecturing. Ideally, better civilian oversight and the president and congress not being permitted to use the military for occupation or unjust attacks. Mainly, that duty falls to the populace to be better informed and more critical. The government will exercise its military might only as much as the people will allow them.

    To return to one element from my original post here, what exactly does "supporting" the troops mean?
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  7. #47
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is precisely how it ought to be. We have civilian control over the military in this country for good damn reason.


    Exactly, because you can't have the military itself, or individual soldiers, deciding they WON'T fight this war, any more than you can have them deciding they WILL fight some other war that they were NOT told to fight!

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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    To return to one element from my original post here, what exactly does "supporting" the troops mean?

    I'd say at its most basic and minimal level: showing the respect due to someone who puts their life on the line for your country. Not treating them the way so many Vietnam vets were treated when they came home, being spit on and called "baby killers" and such.

    I'd also add, not treating them as if they were "at fault" for fighting what YOU consider an "unjust war", since they do not legally have the right to pick and choose their wars.

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  9. #49
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
    What kind of question is that? Of course we should always support "the troops." And we should be quick to bring those who cross the line to justice. Why would you include war crimes? Why would anyone in their right mind support people who commit war crimes?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #50
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Preach it!



    That may be the way it is, but that might not be how it has to be. Especially with the increasing mechanization of warfare. I'm really just conjecturing. Ideally, better civilian oversight and the president and congress not being permitted to use the military for occupation or unjust attacks. Mainly, that duty falls to the populace to be better informed and more critical. The government will exercise its military might only as much as the people will allow them.

    To return to one element from my original post here, what exactly does "supporting" the troops mean?
    For a military man, he doesn't decide what is a just war or what isn't. You are correct, first it is up to congress and then the president to decide whether to use force or not. The populace can make its voice heard. The soldier must follow the orders and directives that come down the chain of command.

    What does supporting the troops mean? That definition probably is left up to the individual. It doesn't mean treating soldiers like some of the U.S. population did after they returned from Vietnam. I can remember the hostile greetings some of these war veterans received at the hands of the anti-war crowd. During that time it seemed the soldier was to be blamed and not the elected leaders that sent them into harms way.

    I think the bottom line is just treating military members with respect. You do not have to do anything for them, just don't shout "baby killer," or spit upon them and threat them like they were pariah. Most of the soldiers serving in Vietnam didn't want to be there in the first place. If one is against any particular war, complain, demonstrate, write letters to your congressman, senators and the president and to newspapers, but don't take it out on the soldier.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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