View Poll Results: Should We Always Support the Troops

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  • Yes

    36 63.16%
  • No

    21 36.84%
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Thread: Should We Always Support the Troops?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    If they are in a war you deem unjust, well, your elected representatives sent them there. So perhaps you should be upset with the American body politic, not the folks who have volunteered to serve it.
    Right on the money. I couldn't have said it better myself and if I tried I would have had to write a novel.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
    Supporting the troops does not necessarily mean supporting the war they are involved in, nor the policies that cause it.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Supporting the troops does not necessarily mean supporting the war they are involved in, nor the policies that cause it.
    Yes, well, if I believed that 911 was an inside job, the illumanati and masons (and Jews, of course) rule the world and that the US govt is hiding alien info... then I'd have particular objections. It all depends on perspective.

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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    l agree with your post but they may be held responsible for some crimes (rape )commited by many of them as in the example of bosnia.
    Obviously.
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
    there is no requirement to support the troops or not to....just weigh the facts , the context, and use your best judgement... try to be as fair and just as possible

    for the fact spend over 24 years in uniform, i'm more apt to understand what troops go through... and more apt to support them through thick and thin ( within reason)
    I'm more apt to be sympathetic to "war atrocities" (IMO, war is an atrocity, "war atrocity"a bit of a redundant phrase to me)... at least moreso than I am to peacetime crimes committed by troops anyways.
    as far as "unjust wars" go.. troops are powerless in that regard.... they don't have the luxury of being able to discern whether a war is just or not, nor do we want them to.. that is the sole domain of civilian leadership.

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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Yes, well, if I believed that 911 was an inside job, the illumanati and masons (and Jews, of course) rule the world and that the US govt is hiding alien info... then I'd have particular objections. It all depends on perspective.
    Three red herrings in one sentence. Remarkable. Good to know that the institution allows use of the Internet.

  7. #37
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Maybe they should be. Maybe someone who enlists during peacetime should be able to conscientiously object. They should have a recourse against being ordered into an unjust war.

    I find the slogan about "supporting" our troops too vague to really comment on. Support takes many forms and means many different things to different people. Someone would have to explain exactly what they mean by supporting.

    And I actually disagree that we can't blame soldiers for fighting an unjust war. If a civilian has the courage to face jail for refusing the draft, then a soldier ought to have the courage to face court martial for refusing to fight an unjust war. We certainly blame the Nazi soldiers who patrolled the concentration camps. We certainly blame the soldiers who participated in Nanking. We should blame soldiers who killed innocent children in Iraq, too. Or better yet, not put them in the position to do that in the first place.
    The military's job is to protect and defend the United States and they do this by killing people and breaking things. During peace time each and every soldier trains and hones his skill at killing people and breaking things. When one joins the military they are acknowledging that when and if war comes, they will do their job of defending, protecting, killing and breaking things.

    I see you are back to the unjust war thing, but by whose definition? The presidents? Congress? Your history professor? You own? Mine? If we would go by the constitution, the president is suppose to ask for a declaration of war and congress is suppose to pass that declaration and then the president signs it before this nation goes to war. But do you know when the last time Congress declared war?

    The one thing civilians do not realize is war is down right ugly. There is no such thing as a civilized war, a war fought by the Marquis of Queensbury rules if you will. The United States has tried to make war as civilized as possible and in the process probably has gotten a lot of her own soldiers killed instead of the enemy or some civilian close to the enemy. War is not something to be taken lightly, although I think quite a lot of our elected leaders do. But if we do go to war, we should go to war using everything in our arsenal with maximum force. The truth is the quicker a war comes to an end, the more lives will be saved in the long run.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  8. #38
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    If they are in a war you deem unjust, well, your elected representatives sent them there. So perhaps you should be upset with the American body politic, not the folks who have volunteered to serve it.

    I have to disagree. Our elected officials may be the ones to declare war but it is the soldiers that carry out that war. It is not our politicians killing people because they were ordered to, it is the soldiers. So I hold our soldiers just as accountable for the wars they are involved in. They made a choice to fight in that war.

  9. #39
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I see you are back to the unjust war thing, but by whose definition? The presidents? Congress? Your history professor? You own? Mine? If we would go by the constitution, the president is suppose to ask for a declaration of war and congress is suppose to pass that declaration and then the president signs it before this nation goes to war. But do you know when the last time Congress declared war?
    This is my first post in this thread, so I'm not really back to anything. But I was suggesting that the soldier ought to have some discretion. We place such a high value on individual choices and beliefs in this country, perhaps asking a soldier to give that up completely is too much to ask.

    The one thing civilians do not realize is war is down right ugly. There is no such thing as a civilized war, a war fought by the Marquis of Queensbury rules if you will. The United States has tried to make war as civilized as possible and in the process probably has gotten a lot of her own soldiers killed instead of the enemy or some civilian close to the enemy. War is not something to be taken lightly, although I think quite a lot of our elected leaders do. But if we do go to war, we should go to war using everything in our arsenal with maximum force. The truth is the quicker a war comes to an end, the more lives will be saved in the long run.
    I think we do realize that. It's one of the main reasons we like to stay civilians. And I agree, war ought to be fought to destroy a dangerous enemy as quickly and efficiently as possible. Unfortunately, we don't fight them that way. We fight to occupy.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Nope. You willingly give up certain decisions and rights when you join the military for the time proscribed. If you want to refuse military discipline, you go to jail.
    And maybe that's not how it ought to be. The idea that not fighting is something that ought to be punished comes from ancient times when basically anyone who wasn't royalty was little more than a slave. The life and liberty of a soldier was irrelevant. Only their ability to expand the personal power of their ruler mattered. Maybe it's time to rethink that tradition.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Anyone that supporrts troops blindly - no matter what they do - is little more then a trained minion for the government.

    There are good soldiers and bad soldiers...just like there are good civilians and bad civilians.


    Now, I assume a soldier (and a civilian) is a decent person until I have evidence to the contrary.

    But if that evidence points to wrongdoings - then those involved will be judged negatively by me.


    Sure, war drives/forces people to do what in civilian life are considered 'bad' things - that's part of the job.

    But there are bad things and their are REALLY bad things.

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