View Poll Results: Should We Always Support the Troops

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  • Yes

    36 63.16%
  • No

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Thread: Should We Always Support the Troops?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Many rushed to sign up before they were even drafted. And I'm fine with the consequences. Soldiers are not slaves.



    Ultimately it is the troops who carry out the actions.

    Soldiers are not given the option to decide which wars they will fight in, legally. Therefore holding them accountable for being deployed to Iraq is to hold them accountable for something they had no legal recourse to affect.

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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You may feel differently, but I don't respect their service because they chose to serve in unjust wars. A maybe have more sympathy for those who were drafted into Vietnam, but even then there is always CO status.
    Alright, I have reading this string and have to jump in on this one, because I'm honestly shocked at your very narrow view here. There are a few things you don't seem to be taking into account. First of all, when we went into Iraq, it was based on completely manipulated information, and a government that lied, bold faced to the country. Blaming an 18 year old kid, who thought he was doing is duty as an American, because his President told him that's what he was doing, is just idiotic. Have you ever tried to convince a teenage that something they believe is wrong? Let me tell you, it's nearly impossible. You are looking at this subject through a HUGELY narrow lens.

    Secondly, you also don't account for the manipulation of the recruiting process. There is a reason that the people signing up to join the military are 18 year old kids, who think they are going to see some of the world, help some people, and get college paid for. That is what a good recruiter gets kids to believe, and they buy it completely. That's also the reason very few service members stay in after their contract is up. Because they figure out through the course of their service, that they were lied to and manipulated.

    My boyfriend became a Marine because he had been convinced that doing so, was his way of contributing to his country, and thought he would helping to liberate the people of Iraq. He realized after his first tour, that was entirely untrue, but there was nothing he could do about. He was contractually obligated to serve his time, follow orders and protect his friends as much as he could. If he didn't, he'd have been court marshaled and punished for it. Most likely spending well beyond their contractual service in the brig.

    The subject is much more complicated then you make it seem. Acting like it's always been common knowledge that Iraq was an unjust war is ignoring the facts of history. We should be pissed off that our government manipulated the teenagers of this country into dying for a war that was waged based on a lie, and it cost millions of people their lives. Personally, I take to defending service members, because they join the military with the intention of defending their country, regardless of how miss guided that belief turned out to be and I condemn my government for wasting so many young lives of false pretenses.

  3. #23
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
    Yes, we should always support the individual troops, they signed up to protect our country with their life, their limbs, and their minds on the line. They should be treated with honor, and taken care of.

    We must be critical of military command however, and we must be critical of the people who send them to war, and we must protest unjust wars. Though we must never blame the soldiers for fighting in unjust wars, because that was not their choice. In those cases, we must support them even more.
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Yes, we should always support the individual troops, they signed up to protect our country with their life, their limbs, and their minds on the line. They should be treated with honor, and taken care of.

    We must be critical of military command however, and we must be critical of the people who send them to war, and we must protest unjust wars. Though we must never blame the soldiers for fighting in unjust wars, because that was not their choice. In those cases, we must support them even more.
    l agree with your post but they may be held responsible for some crimes (rape )commited by many of them as in the example of bosnia.
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    I think it's pretty lame when the flight attendants get on the intercom and ask everyone to applaud our troops ever time I fly around the south, just because someone in uniform happens to be sitting on the plane.

    We might as well do a round of applause for police officers, firefighters, doctors, nurses, etc.

    I think the troops get undue special attention.

    That said, you can't blame the troops for unjust wars - blame the politicians, not the soldiers. Likewise, you can't blame the troops for annoying flight attendants.

    The troops are just doing their jobs. It's the people around them who are annoying douchebags.
    Last edited by Peter Grimm; 03-02-13 at 08:20 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Can you accept that many (most?) of the soldiers who have served in those wars may disagree with your assessment of their status (just/unjust), and accept that IN THEIR VIEW they served their country honorably?
    Yes I accept that, I just do not always agree with them.


    While I don't want to stir the pot overmuch here, what I'm kind of asking is whether you feel compelled to disrespect the individual soldiers who fought in those wars because you feel those wars were unjust, or do you respect them for their service in wars they may have believed were justified even if you disagree?

    What I'm talking about here is respect for the individual GI you encounter in everyday life, even if he is an Iraq or Vietnam vet.
    If the solider feels he is doing the right thing for man and country I do not disrespect them in their choice even if I disagree. I just feel that perhaps they may be misguided or know something I do not. If however they feel that the cause is unjust or is uncertain but chose to follow orders anyway because they are just doing their job or they are afraid of personal consequences for not doing so then I have no respect for them. If you are willing to take a life I feel you better have a damn good justifiable reason other then following orders or doing your job, to me that is just a cop out. It all comes down to the person who does the killing and not those who ordered it.

    My father was drafted for Vietnam but dodged it by getting married and impregnating his wife knowing that their was a good chance they would reconsider under those circumstances which they did. Now I am sure many people would consider that a cowardly act but you have to understand his reason. He felt that the US was under no threat from the Vietnamese and that it was largely a political battle which I personally agree with. He was not about to risk his life for the whims of bureaucrats. Now if the Vietnamese had invaded the US and posed a real threat to us I believe he would have served wholeheartedly. I share the same views and would refuse to participate in any conflict that I felt was for anything other then national defense and I am talking about a real legitimate threat such as those we faced in WWII and not preemptive strikes on a long shot of a half ass threat.

  7. #27
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Soldiers are not given the option to decide which wars they will fight in, legally. Therefore holding them accountable for being deployed to Iraq is to hold them accountable for something they had no legal recourse to affect.
    Maybe they should be. Maybe someone who enlists during peacetime should be able to conscientiously object. They should have a recourse against being ordered into an unjust war.

    I find the slogan about "supporting" our troops too vague to really comment on. Support takes many forms and means many different things to different people. Someone would have to explain exactly what they mean by supporting.

    And I actually disagree that we can't blame soldiers for fighting an unjust war. If a civilian has the courage to face jail for refusing the draft, then a soldier ought to have the courage to face court martial for refusing to fight an unjust war. We certainly blame the Nazi soldiers who patrolled the concentration camps. We certainly blame the soldiers who participated in Nanking. We should blame soldiers who killed innocent children in Iraq, too. Or better yet, not put them in the position to do that in the first place.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
    By whose opinion is an unjust war defined? Your opinion of what wars were just and which weren’t might be completely opposite of mine. Back in my day you had the draft, a soldier had no say as to where and when he would be stationed. Today it is all volunteer, still the same thing applies, a soldier has no say where he will be assigned. Massacres, again by whose definition. Mai Lai during the Vietnam War was a massacre by my standards and those responsible should have been punished. So too was the killing of 30,000 South Vietnamese Civilians by the NVA/VC after they captured Hue during Tet. In my opinion they too should have been punished, but they went home hero’s for their massacres.

    Let me ask you this, do you think you could support the troops and be against the war they are involved in at the same time?
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  9. #29
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Despite what they do? Even if they are in unjust wars? Even if they are committing massacres?
    If they are in a war you deem unjust, well, your elected representatives sent them there. So perhaps you should be upset with the American body politic, not the folks who have volunteered to serve it.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Maybe they should be. Maybe someone who enlists during peacetime should be able to conscientiously object. They should have a recourse against being ordered into an unjust war.
    Nope. You willingly give up certain decisions and rights when you join the military for the time proscribed. If you want to refuse military discipline, you go to jail.

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