View Poll Results: Should We Always Support the Troops

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  • Yes

    36 63.16%
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    21 36.84%
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Thread: Should We Always Support the Troops?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Whether a war is just or unjust is not decided by the soldier, but by the government, the politicians. Therefore you should not hold individual soldiers accountable for fighting in a war you consider "unjust" (subjective judgement to some degree always); they are simply obeying orders and doing their jobs.

    Massacres are another matter... but then again one must understand the combat environment to realize that these things are not always as cut-and-dried as the media presents them. The "fog of war" often makes it hard to distinguish and protect civilians; doubly so when the enemy wears no uniform and deliberately hides among the civilian populace.
    That argument didn't work for the Germans when they slaughtered civilians. Why should it work for us?
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  2. #12
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    No Massacures? Are you sure? I look forward to a good massacure every now and again.
    PS Try using the edit feature.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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  3. #13
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    I believe this is one of the few instances when I have disagreed with you Goshin. Soldiers have the choice to fight and even join the military when motives are fuzzy or questionable. They may not like the consequences of that choice but that choice is there. Blindly following orders or even questioning the orders but choosing to follow those orders is still a choice of the individual and I do not give them a pass just for being patriotic. They can of course make whatever decision they feel is right but that does not mean I will support them in it. Myself I believe every major military campaign we have been in the last 60 has not been about protecting our nation but instead was politically driven by greed or lust for power. These I cannot support.


    Can you accept that many (most?) of the soldiers who have served in those wars may disagree with your assessment of their status (just/unjust), and accept that IN THEIR VIEW they served their country honorably?

    While I don't want to stir the pot overmuch here, what I'm kind of asking is whether you feel compelled to disrespect the individual soldiers who fought in those wars because you feel those wars were unjust, or do you respect them for their service in wars they may have believed were justified even if you disagree?

    What I'm talking about here is respect for the individual GI you encounter in everyday life, even if he is an Iraq or Vietnam vet.

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  4. #14
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    We, as Americans, learned a hard lesson after the Vietnam War. Castigating the soldiers for the decisions of the government did nothing for improving the "peace movement" at that time. I see no reason to believe that it would be any different now.

    Individual actions by a few misguided military personel is not sufficient IMO to demonize all.

  5. #15
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    l support war only if it is made for the purpose of defence
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  6. #16
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Can you accept that many (most?) of the soldiers who have served in those wars may disagree with your assessment of their status (just/unjust), and accept that IN THEIR VIEW they served their country honorably?

    While I don't want to stir the pot overmuch here, what I'm kind of asking is whether you feel compelled to disrespect the individual soldiers who fought in those wars because you feel those wars were unjust, or do you respect them for their service in wars they may have believed were justified even if you disagree?

    What I'm talking about here is respect for the individual GI you encounter in everyday life, even if he is an Iraq or Vietnam vet.
    You may feel differently, but I don't respect their service because they chose to serve in unjust wars. A maybe have more sympathy for those who were drafted into Vietnam, but even then there is always CO status.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #17
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    We should always support them and they don't commit massacures.
    war is not a good thing
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  8. #18
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Very true, language has been abused for a long time.



    It sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If people don't want to go to a combat zone, for any reason, then they should not be forced to go.

    So you support allowing individual soldiers to choose whether to fight or not when their country has declared war?

    Have you thought about what kind of discipline problems that could create? What the conseqences could be? Many WW2 vets didn't particularly want to be there you know...




    And when troops are invading sovereign countries that have done nothing to us, especially their citizens, then that's something that should be decried.

    Yes, but do you decry the government policy choice, or do you attach blame and shame to the individual soldier and disparage them personally? Me, I don't think you should.

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  9. #19
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    So you support allowing individual soldiers to choose whether to fight or not when their country has declared war?

    Have you thought about what kind of discipline problems that could create? What the conseqences could be? Many WW2 vets didn't particularly want to be there you know...
    Many rushed to sign up before they were even drafted. And I'm fine with the consequences. Soldiers are not slaves.

    Yes, but do you decry the government policy choice, or do you attach blame and shame to the individual soldier and disparage them personally? Me, I don't think you should.
    Ultimately it is the troops who carry out the actions.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #20
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    Re: Should We Always Support the Troops?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You may feel differently, but I don't respect their service because they chose to serve in unjust wars. A maybe have more sympathy for those who were drafted into Vietnam, but even then there is always CO status.

    Um, yeah, that viewpoint bothers me.

    The plain fact is we (we collectively, our gov't) don't let individual soldiers decide they will fight THIS war but not THAT war. Doesn't work that way. You enlist, you obey orders, you deploy where and when you're told to do so as long as those orders are LAWFUL.

    Being ordered to serve in Iraq is a lawful order. Whether the Iraq war itself was just or unjust is another question and beyond the scope of individual soldier discretion, legally.

    This is why I don't see holding the individual soldier in disrespect because you don't like the war he fought in.... once he signed on the dotted line he was no longer given any legal options to refuse legal deployment orders.

    So I'm guessing you disrespect EVERY person who volunteered for military service since WW2? Since they were, in effect, agreeing to obey all lawful orders and go fight where they were TOLD to fight, unless given illegal orders like firing on American civilians in CONUS or something.

    I'm genuinely sorry to hear you feel that way, assuming I've correctly understood you.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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