View Poll Results: Should gas prices reflect the cost of military action in the middle east?

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  • Yes, there should be a tax that pays for military action to secure oil in the middle east.

    5 38.46%
  • No

    8 61.54%
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Thread: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    Don't you think that a "punitive tax", although I don't see it that way, would create more insentive to develop alternative sources of energy than the ones that require military intervention to secure.

    I don't want a punitive tax. I am looking to have oil reflect the real cost to the consumer, rather than try to drive us to alternative sources through punishing use of the best current source of energy.
    from the demand side, I think a regressive tax would actually be a hindrance to the transition that we need to make, because so much of that R&D comes from money that flows up. in a way, artificially raising the price of energy is akin to fixing the ingrown nail by shooting off the toe. lots of better ways to do it.

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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    Why are we fighting there?
    Because that is where the OIL is!

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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    from the demand side, I think a regressive tax would actually be a hindrance to the transition that we need to make, because so much of that R&D comes from money that flows up. in a way, artificially raising the price of energy is akin to fixing the ingrown nail by shooting off the toe. lots of better ways to do it.
    I guess I am having trouble understanding your argument. I am trying to suggest a way that works within the capitalist system that America values so much. If you are trying to have the oil industry pay for these military actions without passing it on to the gas buying public, I think you are being foolish. I don't mean that to be rude, but I cannot frame it in a better light.

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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    I guess I am having trouble understanding your argument. I am trying to suggest a way that works within the capitalist system that America values so much.
    that's where you're going wrong. it can't be done without significant public sector R&D. GE didn't get us to the moon, but GE and NASA did.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    If you are trying to have the oil industry pay for these military actions without passing it on to the gas buying public, I think you are being foolish. I don't mean that to be rude, but I cannot frame it in a better light.
    the oil industry won't pay it. the consumer will.

    as for military actions, i would support pulling out all of the stops so that we can eliminate the need to defend our access to global oil resources. i'm not talking about paying for the military actions with a direct gas tax; i'm talking about replacing the oil model in advance of the war over diminishing resources if we don't.

    rather than kill the economy with another energy tax, i'd reallocate the money currently going to global police actions and use it instead to develop new energy technology. the oil companies can either be involved in public / private partnership, or they can get out of the way and risk withering on the vine when the next model starts being put into place.

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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    that's where you're going wrong. it can't be done without significant public sector R&D. GE didn't get us to the moon, but GE and NASA did.




    the oil industry won't pay it. the consumer will.

    as for military actions, i would support pulling out all of the stops so that we can eliminate the need to defend our access to global oil resources. i'm not talking about paying for the military actions with a direct gas tax; i'm talking about replacing the oil model in advance of the war over diminishing resources if we don't.

    rather than kill the economy with another energy tax, i'd reallocate the money currently going to global police actions and use it instead to develop new energy technology. the oil companies can either be involved in public / private partnership, or they can get out of the way and risk withering on the vine when the next model starts being put into place.
    TY, I think I am better understanding what you are getting at. IMO your take is not workable in the short term but I know that in the long term we need to foster other sources of energy. I was thinking that the current system of keeping gasoline as cheap as possible is not fostering the changes you advocate.

    I have noticed in my neighborhood that the most inefficient vehicles on the road appear to be driven by the poorest people. If perhaps, the cost of gas drove them to drive more fuel efficient vehicles rather than the cheaper to buy, but more expensive to run, they would be encouraging the type of reform you are suggesting. They are wasting their money to foster political ideals that do not seem to be in their best interests.

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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    TY, I think I am better understanding what you are getting at. IMO your take is not workable in the short term but I know that in the long term we need to foster other sources of energy. I was thinking that the current system of keeping gasoline as cheap as possible is not fostering the changes you advocate.

    I have noticed in my neighborhood that the most inefficient vehicles on the road appear to be driven by the poorest people. If perhaps, the cost of gas drove them to drive more fuel efficient vehicles rather than the cheaper to buy, but more expensive to run, they would be encouraging the type of reform you are suggesting. They are wasting their money to foster political ideals that do not seem to be in their best interests.
    you know, i get that. but higher gas prices will simply pull money from other parts of the economy. they won't buy a very fuel efficient vehicle until it's very old and cheap to buy. it will take a long time to overcome inertia, but i think that we should have started this transition in the 1970s. we should definitely do it now.

  7. #27
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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The US is not in the mideast to stabilize oil.
    Officially.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Officially.
    Well, of course, the illumanati, masons and Jews decide - ultimately.

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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Well, of course, the illumanati, masons and Jews decide - ultimately.
    Yeah, radcen, you should know how crazy that sounds. We were there for the non-existant WMDs and to stop the terrorists that attacked us because we go over there and topple their leaders.

    You really should listen to ecofarm; he knows what he's talking about. You won't be qualified to speak on these matters until you've had enough mercury laden Kool-Aid to comprehend all the nuances. Here's a lead cup, now don't stop drinking until you understand as much as eco.

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    Re: Should gas prices reflect the cost of war in the middle east?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slateriesling View Post
    Thank you for actually addressing the issues. It appears that you recognize that there is an oil source issue to this.

    I admit, the Islam issue is disturbing. How to deal with a bunch of poor, misguided people is difficult. But we are not dealing with that. It seems to me that the current strategy is to secure the oil and then let the "military industrial complex" benefit from a never ending "war on terrorism."

    Kill em all or don't. Stop the unending bull**** effort to avert some unending threat.

    Frankly you have caused me to bring out my true feelings about the middle east. S**t or get off the pot.
    Resources have always been a factor if not the actual cause of war. Protecting economic interests have also commonly played a role.

    Our real involvement in the Middle-East dates back to the cold war. While the cold war was about stopping Soviet aggression, to do so, we also had to secure and protect resources necessary to our defense. I have no problem with us being in the middle east, just that we are not using our influence to bring about change there and that we don't seem to know how to handle rebuilding countries. For those who want us completely out of the region, it's just not possible without abandoning Israel and causing massive problems to not only our economy but the world economy, upon which we depend.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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