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The march towards a police state continues

Are you in favor of a police state with little or no rights?

  • Total voters
    38
sKiTzo said:
Are you an extremist? Are you a left wing or right wing extremist? Or a left subtleist? Or a semi-right fascist? Why all the labels? How would you label a freedom-loving American who - or better yet - how would you label Thomas Jefferson? Would he fall into any of these labels?
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Yeah, Thomas Jefferson - remember him? Anybody.......? Barack......anybody....? Does anybody remember that guy?
 
Marx was unfortunately correct in his assessment that a person's social state is directly tied to the economic status of their nation. As the means of production continue to vanish from the American landscape and we shift toward a service economy, people are going to be expected to live on less. Less median income means people are not going to have the same standard of living anymore. That's what the attack on unions and worker rights is really about.

Americans, both right and left, have long held onto this idea that they are entitled to a certain standard of living. The fact is that they aren't and they are about to be shown that. A downgrade in living status is not necessarily a bad thing, but we need to make sure that the government doesn't make power grabs during that transition. So far, it seems like it has gotten away with way too much. Just because we need to downgrade our living status does not mean we should be downgrading our rights.

Unless the government (or the people?) does something to reframe the fiduciary responsibility of the corporate infrastructure, all of the capital and financial assets that once made our nation powerful are going to continue to hemorrhage, and we will lose a lot of the liberties we've had along with them.
 
sKiTzo said:
Yeah, Thomas Jefferson - remember him? Anybody.......? Barack......anybody....? Does anybody remember that guy?
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Medication might be helpful.
 
Another mindless right wing meme. I got an email a while back about removing the bayonets from Marines rifles near Obama. Oh and the bolts out of M14s. Silly RW stuff.
LiberalAvenger said:
Speak for yourself. You are not the secretary of defense.
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Actually Popeye (Navy); most of the military vets I've spoken with hate the status quo. They were not thrilled with the Bush policies and are not thrilled with the Obama policies. Usually what I get is "We are the aggressors, and nobody can explain why and what we're doing in this God forbidden hell hole."

I feel like a lot of people tout that "support the troops" slogan, but there needs to be a new one: "Listen to the troops."

People will wildly go around claiming they support them, but when they speak their minds and it goes against something you believed to be true...well suddenly they are just insubordinate and not worthy of an opinion.

For this police state claim:

We're not there, but we're walking the path towards it.

Police states are usually created by governments who always have to have some sort of enemy. A boogieman (or in our case terrorist) is hiding under all our beds and the government has to make laws for your protection. The last three words in the previous sentence should set off red flags; "for your protection."

Well, there is a quote in my signature that has been used countless times, but it has merit. In a free society, we should always be wary of the government making any laws for our own safety. Why? Freedom is not safe. It never has been and it never will be. Freedom is risky. Freedom is dangerous especially to those that seek unlimited power.

I think the one freedom that we need to look at is the rights of due process/habeaus corpus which are suspended if you are even thought to be an enemy combatant. That sets precedent which allows this government, or a future one to round up citizens and detain them indefinitely. That comes straight out of the book of totalitarianism.

The 2nd amendment issue is a smokescreen to me. They are not to the point of rounding up your weapons. They want to get your attention away from the other measures taken.

The paranoia of the post 9/11 American public led to power hungry bureaucrats to take control. They are still in control to this day and forget about what political party they belong to. That is of no relevance because both have them.
 
sKiTzo said:
Are you an extremist? Are you a left wing or right wing extremist? Or a left subtleist? Or a semi-right fascist? Why all the labels? How would you label a freedom-loving American who - or better yet - how would you label Thomas Jefferson? Would he fall into any of these labels?
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Well, where DO you get your ideas from ?
My questions were answered with more questions...
I some aspects, I may well be an extremist.
T. Jefferson, according to the powers at that time was probably a rabble-rousing tea-bagger..
According to history...depend on who you ask...
 
AreteCourage said:
Actually Popeye (Navy); most of the military vets I've spoken with hate the status quo. They were not thrilled with the Bush policies and are not thrilled with the Obama policies. Usually what I get is "We are the aggressors, and nobody can explain why and what we're doing in this God forbidden hell hole."

I feel like a lot of people tout that "support the troops" slogan, but there needs to be a new one: "Listen to the troops."

People will wildly go around claiming they support them, but when they speak their minds and it goes against something you believed to be true...well suddenly they are just insubordinate and not worthy of an opinion.

For this police state claim:

We're not there, but we're walking the path toward it.

Police states are usually created by governments who always have to have some sort of enemy. A boogieman (or in our case terrorist) is hiding under all our beds and the government has to make laws for your protection. The last three words in the previous sentence should set off red flags; "for your protection."

Well, there is a quote in my signature that has been used countless times, but it has merit. In a free society, we should always be wary of the government making any laws for our own safety. Why? Freedom is not safe. It never has been and it never will be. Freedom is risky. Freedom is dangerous especially to those that seek unlimited power.

I think the one freedom that we need to look at is the rights of due process/habeas corpus which are suspended if you are even thought to be an enemy combatant. That sets precedent which allows this government, or a future one to round up citizens and detain them indefinitely. That comes straight out of the book of totalitarianism.

The 2nd amendment issue is a smokescreen to me. They are not to the point of rounding up your weapons. They want to get your attention away from the other measures taken.

The paranoia of the post 9/11 American public led to power hungry bureaucrats to take control. They are still in control to this day and forget about what political party they belong to. That is of no relevance because both have them.
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A good read and I agree in many, if not most aspects.
Police states can be caused by a lack of people participating...even voting....a minority now.
"for your protection"? ..YES.. this sets off flags, an uneasiness...and there is so much of this crap today..
 
The good news is the government is running out of money, and police states are expensive.
 
calamity said:
The good news is the government is running out of money, and police states are expensive.
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As long as The Fed keeps printing money, and our government attacks any country trying to get off the dollar...they will pay for it.

China is the one country we can do little about and when they decide enough is enough....that will be when chaos ensues here.
 
earthworm said:
Well, where DO you get your ideas from ?
My questions were answered with more questions...
I some aspects, I may well be an extremist.
T. Jefferson, according to the powers at that time was probably a rabble-rousing tea-bagger..
According to history...depend on who you ask...
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Here is the sickeningly ironic answer to where I got my ideas - I got them from the American school system, K-12. Probably 4th or 5th grade when we learned about the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They said these were non-negotiable because they protected America from tyrannies. I'll never forget 1976, the bicentennial. At that time, the rogue government we have today was setting up shop, as they had been for decades prior and would continue til present.

It's quite an operation to covertly hijack a government and takes a very long time. How do you get people whose loyalty is to Israel FIRST to occupy many top positions in the American government? This would have to be done over a long period of time. To create a monopoly of the media is a task that must have cost astronomical sums of money and taken decades to achieve. To get cronies planted in all of the key positions in our judicial system and house of reps - again, this is no small task. That is why in 1976, when I got my ideas, I never fathomed such things would be taking place as they are now. The craziest thing about it though, by far, is how people just don't see it. I know NOTHING about politics, but I see it, and I've been watching it play out since Desert Storm.
 
sKiTzo said:
Here is the sickeningly ironic answer to where I got my ideas - I got them from the American school system, K-12. Probably 4th or 5th grade when we learned about the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They said these were non-negotiable because they protected America from tyrannies. I'll never forget 1976, the bicentennial. At that time, the rogue government we have today was setting up shop, as they had been for decades prior and would continue til present.

It's quite an operation to covertly hijack a government and takes a very long time. How do you get people whose loyalty is to Israel FIRST to occupy many top positions in the American government? This would have to be done over a long period of time. To create a monopoly of the media is a task that must have cost astronomical sums of money and taken decades to achieve. To get cronies planted in all of the key positions in our judicial system and house of reps - again, this is no small task. That is why in 1976, when I got my ideas, I never fathomed such things would be taking place as they are now. The craziest thing about it though, by far, is how people just don't see it. I know NOTHING about politics, but I see it, and I've been watching it play out since Desert Storm.
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Are you refering to jews in your comment?
 
That's just another label. I don't even know what a "jew" is. If it's not a nationality or race, what is it - a religion?

No, what I'm referring to is the apparent role of influence that Israel appears to have within the U.S. government itself. The levels of importance given to things like the needs of Israel, are certainly suspect. For example, one of the foremost issues in the 2012 US presidential debate (if not THE foremost issue) was whether or not the candidate would be in favor of fighting a war for Israel, a nation perfectly capable of defending itself (and with a more than adequate nuclear arsenal of its own), should Israel become involved in a war with Iran, EVEN WHEN IT WAS SPECULATED THAT TO DO SO WOULD MOST LIKELY TRIGGER A THIRD WORLD WAR.

I find that a little bizarre considering the fact that we are not Israel so why would the US government be so willing to throw American lives around where it is so unnecessary. Again, Israel's military is very capable. Israel plays us like a cheap violin but we let them. So one must ask, why?

I believe it was Hillary Clinton who said we must stand behind whatever Israel does because they are our "most trusted and dearest ally". Oh really? Tell that to one of the survivors of the USS Liberty attack. If you are familiar with the USS LIBERTY false flag operation, as well as the "dancing Israelis" and exploding truck bombs on 911, you'll find that both events were covered up extensively by the US government. This seems to indicate that Israel is our "go-to" guy for false flag ops....ah, now I get it..."most trusted and dearest ally", but not in a good way that serves the American people.
 
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sKiTzo said:
That's just another label. I don't even know what a "jew" is. If it's not a nationality or race, what is it - a religion?
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Yes, the nationality is referred to as "Israeli". If the country was named Jew, then I suppose the nationality could be "Jewish".


sKiTzo said:
Israel plays us like a cheap violin but we let them. So one must ask, why?
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Ok, I'll ask... why? Is it because they have the Ark of the Covenant?

the USS LIBERTY false flag operation
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BS
 
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ecofarm said:
Yes, the nationality is referred to as "Israeli". If the country was named Jew, then I suppose the nationality could be "Jewish".

Ok, I'll ask... why? Is it because they have the Ark of the Covenant?

BS
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nah but that is my question, why?
 
sKiTzo said:
That's just another label. I don't even know what a "jew" is. If it's not a nationality or race, what is it - a religion?
Click to expand...

"Jew" is short for Jewish, which describes a common faith (religion) in Israel called Judaism.

No, what I'm referring to is the apparent role of influence that Israel appears to have within the U.S. government itself. The levels of importance given to things like the needs of Israel, are certainly suspect. For example, one of the foremost issues in the 2012 US presidential debate (if not THE foremost issue) was whether or not the candidate would be in favor of fighting a war for Israel, a nation perfectly capable of defending itself (and with a more than adequate nuclear arsenal of its own), should Israel become involved in a war with Iran, EVEN WHEN IT WAS SPECULATED THAT TO DO SO WOULD MOST LIKELY TRIGGER A THIRD WORLD WAR.

I find that a little bizarre considering the fact that we are not Israel so why would the US government be so willing to throw American lives around where it is so unnecessary. Again, Israel's military is very capable. Israel plays us like a cheap violin but we let them. So one must ask, why?
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Israel's military is pretty much a result of purchases from the US. By supplying them with a potent arsenal we keep a powerful ally and counter balance for our strategic oil interests.

I believe it was Hillary Clinton who said we must stand behind whatever Israel does because they are our "most trusted and dearest ally". Oh really? Tell that to one of the survivors of the USS Liberty attack. If you are familiar with the USS LIBERTY false flag operation, as well as the "dancing Israelis" and exploding truck bombs on 911, you'll find that both events were covered up extensively by the US government. This seems to indicate that Israel is our "go-to" guy for false flag ops....ah, now I get it..."most trusted and dearest ally", but not in a good way that serves the American people.
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Is there enough evidence of these events to be prosecuted? If so why would the US Gov back a hostile entity?
 
Ikari said:
...and everyone seems to be smiling all the way.
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This is the part that disturbs me the most. They're not smiling because they want totalitarianism, they're smiling because they don't see it. They're smiling because they think we're paranoid tin-foil hat wearers. They can walk outside right now and everything is calm, no dissent, and they think "I don't see any police state". They are not aware because it's so very gradual. Imagine a hunter setting a trap to catch an animal. It's dark, it's quiet, and you can't make any sudden moves or you will scare the animal away. So you work in silence, and in the dark, and set up the trap ever so slowly. But when the trap is completed, boom! the **** hits the fan, and life will never be the same.
 
grip said:
Is there enough evidence of these events to be prosecuted?
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ABSOLUTELY. without the obstruction of justice being committed by the US government, there is more than enough evidence, starting with transcripts of eyewitness testimony that the government refuses to allow anyone to view, despite numerous attempts to make them release the documents via freedom of information act. Because they will not release the docs, they are guilty by default.
 
Juiposa said:
The likelyhood of the US becoming a police state is so incredibly low. This hyberbolic panic is irritating. Your rights aren't going anywhere. The Gov't is not becoming oppressive. You are not being forced to accept certain ideals. You can still partake in this idiotic hyperbole without persucution. Everything I see points to toward the opposite.

Sit down and shut up. Deal with the problems at hand and stop your paranoid rampages.
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I respectfully disagree. There is danger of becoming a police state. 1. Germany was a democracy known as the Weimar Republic before it became the Third Reich. The Nazi Party took power legally rather than via a coup. (A previous attempted coup had failed.) 2. The Patriot Act. Thanks to this atrocious piece of legislation borne of our fear all the government has do do is claim "terrorism" to suspend a person's right to legal counsel and to be charged with a crime or freed. You can be held indefinitely with no recourse if the government trumps up a terrorism claim. Of course this is unconstitutional, but that doesn't matter. They're enforcing this unjust law anyway. 3. Illegal wiretapping. This also comes from the Patriot Act. Now we as Americans no longer have free speech in privacy on the telephone thanks to the Patriot Act. It doesn't matter that this violates the First Amendment. They're doing it anyway. 4. For some time now we've been allowing presidents to go to war if they want to in contrast to the previous tradition of requiring any president to get a formal declaration of war through Congress. 5. Citizens United. We've been allowing huge corporations to bribe our politicians, stealing our government that is supposed to represent us away from us. CU was the culmination of this. It essentially gives carte blanche for corporate tyranny. Corporations manipulate our government as if they own it. They've kept an absurd War on Drugs in place, which isn't about the safety of citizens and never has been. It's all for corporate profits. The privatization of our prisons has created a profit incentive to lock people up. We continue to do so via our absurd drug busts. Think of it. You could grow a natural herb on your own property and then get invaded by the Feds and locked up. They could even claim via the Patriot Act that you're in cahoots with terrorists, resulting in your not being allowed a lawyer or any way to fight the charges. That absolutely is our government behaving like a police state. We're not as far down that road as Nazi Germany was, but we've gone way farther down the road than we should.
 
sKiTzo said:
That's just another label. I don't even know what a "jew" is. If it's not a nationality or race, what is it - a religion?

No, what I'm referring to is the apparent role of influence that Israel appears to have within the U.S. government itself. The levels of importance given to things like the needs of Israel, are certainly suspect. For example, one of the foremost issues in the 2012 US presidential debate (if not THE foremost issue) was whether or not the candidate would be in favor of fighting a war for Israel, a nation perfectly capable of defending itself (and with a more than adequate nuclear arsenal of its own), should Israel become involved in a war with Iran, EVEN WHEN IT WAS SPECULATED THAT TO DO SO WOULD MOST LIKELY TRIGGER A THIRD WORLD WAR.

I find that a little bizarre considering the fact that we are not Israel so why would the US government be so willing to throw American lives around where it is so unnecessary. Again, Israel's military is very capable. Israel plays us like a cheap violin but we let them. So one must ask, why?

I believe it was Hillary Clinton who said we must stand behind whatever Israel does because they are our "most trusted and dearest ally". Oh really? Tell that to one of the survivors of the USS Liberty attack. If you are familiar with the USS LIBERTY false flag operation, as well as the "dancing Israelis" and exploding truck bombs on 911, you'll find that both events were covered up extensively by the US government. This seems to indicate that Israel is our "go-to" guy for false flag ops....ah, now I get it..."most trusted and dearest ally", but not in a good way that serves the American people.
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I am suprised that you deny knowing what a Jew is.
 
sKiTzo said:
I don't even know what a "jew" is. .
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If you are that extraordinarily ignorant, you have no business discussing the subject at all.

It is obvious that you have been to plenty of hate sites, and are capable of parroting what you find there as would a child, but in order to dispell this incredible ignorance of yours, you need a real education and not conspiracy/hate sites.
 
Luna Tick said:
I respectfully disagree. There is danger of becoming a police state. 1. Germany was a democracy known as the Weimar Republic before it became the Third Reich. The Nazi Party took power legally rather than via a coup. (A previous attempted coup had failed.) 2. The Patriot Act. Thanks to this atrocious piece of legislation borne of our fear all the government has do do is claim "terrorism" to suspend a person's right to legal counsel and to be charged with a crime or freed. You can be held indefinitely with no recourse if the government trumps up a terrorism claim. Of course this is unconstitutional, but that doesn't matter. They're enforcing this unjust law anyway. 3. Illegal wiretapping. This also comes from the Patriot Act. Now we as Americans no longer have free speech in privacy on the telephone thanks to the Patriot Act. It doesn't matter that this violates the First Amendment. They're doing it anyway. 4. For some time now we've been allowing presidents to go to war if they want to in contrast to the previous tradition of requiring any president to get a formal declaration of war through Congress. 5. Citizens United. We've been allowing huge corporations to bribe our politicians, stealing our government that is supposed to represent us away from us. CU was the culmination of this. It essentially gives carte blanche for corporate tyranny. Corporations manipulate our government as if they own it. They've kept an absurd War on Drugs in place, which isn't about the safety of citizens and never has been. It's all for corporate profits. The privatization of our prisons has created a profit incentive to lock people up. We continue to do so via our absurd drug busts. Think of it. You could grow a natural herb on your own property and then get invaded by the Feds and locked up. They could even claim via the Patriot Act that you're in cahoots with terrorists, resulting in your not being allowed a lawyer or any way to fight the charges. That absolutely is our government behaving like a police state. We're not as far down that road as Nazi Germany was, but we've gone way farther down the road than we should.
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And on two occasions throughout the history of the United States, it was actually illegal to say anything which was disrespectful of the government or its leaders. There was the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798, and there was the Sedition and Espionage Act during World War I. Many people were tried and convicted. It was a dark mark on the protections of speech and expression. There was also Japanese internment camps, Watergate, the Palmer Raids, the Red Scare, McCarthyism, etc, etc.

All of these were egregious violations of our liberties. But, guess what? We got through it, and things got a little better. And as long as we as a society value freedom, things will continue get better, even if there are bumps along the way.
 
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