View Poll Results: Is the world overpopulated

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  • the more the merrier

    20 39.22%
  • overpopulation is a problem but I am against child quotas

    19 37.25%
  • overpopulation is a problem and we need child quotas

    11 21.57%
  • but but but, my kid may be the one to save the world

    1 1.96%
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Thread: is the population bomb real

  1. #71
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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Your poll choices exhibit clear bias, and the options are less than optimal.

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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Neomalthusian: "I think that our economic expectations have become so reliant on (I might even say addicted to) growth, that any set of policies which neglects the need for growth and brings us back to sustainability would a) bring about massive economic pain and drop in our living standards, and b) therefore be utter political suicide.

    In other words, our economic expectations consistently override any need for sustainability. Implementing sustainable policies may indeed be economically irrational in the immediate term, but an economic imperative in the long term. Seems nearly everyone figures we're going to collapse, yet won't give up their stance on so many government expenditures and requirements for "full employment" and jobs bills and extending welfare programs and benefits and entitling people to health care. We're essentially arguing over room service as the ship sinks (and we admit it's sinking)."

    Interesting Thread, suprised it wasn't commented on further. I stole your last point from it to discuss growth further here. I think my first concern would be to caution people not to consider growth and sustainability as mutually exclusive. It doesn't make practical sense to argue this point out to an infinite timeline. The relevant issue is can we get growth and sustainability that doesn't lead to the parabolic consumption of resources that is addressed as the tipping point. The other thing to consider is that not all economic growth comes at the cost of increased consumption. Efficiencies are a major source of economic progress. Air Quality is better now, even with more cars on the road, then it was 20 years ago. One could even argue that economic progress in this area benefited sustainability.

  3. #73
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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    According to a 2009 report published by the FAO, about 400 million hectares of African savannah are quite suitable for farming--but only 10 percent of that land is currently cultivated. We have the resources now, but we're just not using it. Claiming that overpopulation is threatening the world is distracting from the serious issues. African countries don't need family planning programs, we need farmers.
    Similarly, perhaps a thousand times more energy comes from the sun than we use, but we are not using it. Extinctions, talk about Pandas, tree kangaroos, buffalos, doves, etc. I believe I read an article that 500 species are becoming extinct every year. AGW, destruction of habitat, pollution, and a myriad of other anthropogenic (caused by man) causes are destroying the planet. The population bomb went off about 1900 and noone noticed. Nowadays, one need only study the many hockey stick graphs detailing man's track record. The track record would not indicate that homo sapiens are all that intelligent. When a species destroys their own habitat, they are generally considered to be ignorant. Screw a bunch of farmer's and family planners and do a reality check. It would appear that, as a species, we are ignorant or just plain nuts.

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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    There are plenty of places to farm that won't spark an Elephant-Human war.
    Not in Asia, the elephant is getting crowded out, same thing in many parts of Africa.

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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Not in Asia, the elephant is getting crowded out, same thing in many parts of Africa.
    No, there are plenty of places in Asia to farm that won't displace more elephants.
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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Your poll choices exhibit clear bias, and the options are less than optimal.
    I admit I am profoundly bias on this subject but I thought my poll choices covered the spectrum. What choice would you have given? Really I'm curious.

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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Quote Originally Posted by JWhite View Post
    Neomalthusian: "I think that our economic expectations have become so reliant on (I might even say addicted to) growth, that any set of policies which neglects the need for growth and brings us back to sustainability would a) bring about massive economic pain and drop in our living standards, and b) therefore be utter political suicide.

    In other words, our economic expectations consistently override any need for sustainability. Implementing sustainable policies may indeed be economically irrational in the immediate term, but an economic imperative in the long term. Seems nearly everyone figures we're going to collapse, yet won't give up their stance on so many government expenditures and requirements for "full employment" and jobs bills and extending welfare programs and benefits and entitling people to health care. We're essentially arguing over room service as the ship sinks (and we admit it's sinking)."

    Interesting Thread, suprised it wasn't commented on further. I stole your last point from it to discuss growth further here. I think my first concern would be to caution people not to consider growth and sustainability as mutually exclusive. It doesn't make practical sense to argue this point out to an infinite timeline. The relevant issue is can we get growth and sustainability that doesn't lead to the parabolic consumption of resources that is addressed as the tipping point. The other thing to consider is that not all economic growth comes at the cost of increased consumption. Efficiencies are a major source of economic progress. Air Quality is better now, even with more cars on the road, then it was 20 years ago. One could even argue that economic progress in this area benefited sustainability.


    I think you are right on this. Our economic system absolutely requires growth. I am at heart a capitalist but I often wonder how long this can go on. Earlier I compared us to a cancer that grows uncontrollably until it kills the host organism and sadly I think if we can't tweak our economic system to not rely on growth that is exactly what we are and what we will do.

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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I think you are right on this. Our economic system absolutely requires growth. I am at heart a capitalist but I often wonder how long this can go on. Earlier I compared us to a cancer that grows uncontrollably until it kills the host organism and sadly I think if we can't tweak our economic system to not rely on growth that is exactly what we are and what we will do.
    I think the requirement for growth is based, at least in part, on the fact that our population keeps growing. In the US and maybe Canada, our population is growing due to immigration. Without immigration we would be like Japan and many Western European countries and have negative population growth.

    Part of the "need" for growth is based upon the very human fact that most people want more, aka, they are greedy. This is not only the rich or corporations, but almost everyone. In the US, Canada, Japan and most of Western Europe, we do not have a problem with meeting basic needs, unlike much of the rest of the world. We want more because we want it, not need it.

    Most of the worlds population growth is in poor, un-modernized nations. Most of these nations have one of three factors in common, closed "protectionist" economic systems, politically unstable area or socialist based systems, all hinder advancement, development, and the adoption of modern techniques. Most of their industry, including agriculture is still human/animal powered which requires large numbers to accomplish and you barely break even, if you do. They do not have the economic strength to make advancements themselves but block/discourage outside investment which would allow growth.

    Religion is of course another major cause of population growth in many poor nations. Take a look at how many are Catholic or Muslim. Male dominated societies where women are given very little say in reproduction rights, often, like Muslims, this factor is aggravated by religion, is another reason for uncontrolled growth.
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  9. #79
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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I admit I am profoundly bias on this subject but I thought my poll choices covered the spectrum. What choice would you have given? Really I'm curious.

    Well, the option I personally would have gone for would have been something like "We're okay for now, but population growth needs to continue to slow, especially in undeveloped areas, while technology continues to advance and economic development spreads to compensate"...

    We'd need some major technological advancements in materials recycling and cleaner energy to comfortably handle a world population of much more than ten billion... it would probably be good if we peaked well short of that for the foreseeable future.

    \

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    Re: is the population bomb real

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, the option I personally would have gone for would have been something like "We're okay for now, but population growth needs to continue to slow, especially in undeveloped areas, while technology continues to advance and economic development spreads to compensate"...

    We'd need some major technological advancements in materials recycling and cleaner energy to comfortably handle a world population of much more than ten billion... it would probably be good if we peaked well short of that for the foreseeable future.

    \
    Well I tend to agree with that but it's a bit looooong for a poll option.

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