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Universal background checks

Do you support universal background checks?


  • Total voters
    104
I could care less who is eligible for military service. I only care about those who are actually in the military (regular and reserves).

If you have no military training, then you have no business being considered part of the nation's armed forces.

The 2nd Amendment refers to the militia (today's armed forces/reserves).

If you are in the armed forces/reserves (plus cops and the like) then you should be able to buy a gun without a background check.

If not, you should not.




A falsehood is a lie. Are you accusing me of lying?

Yes or no?


If the answer is 'yes' - you better provide proof that I lied or this discussion is over.

I don't waste my time with juvenile morons who throw baseless accusations around without cause.

If you want to call me names - let's head to the Dungeon and have at it properly.



Have a nice day.

this is complete silliness. what part of the constitution gave the federal government the power to restrict citizens owning firearms?
 
There are no laws preventing private sellers from selling guns without a background check in 40 states.

Nor should there be. Buying, selling, trading, manufacturing, or otherwise exchanging arms must be included in keeping and bearing arms. What good is the right to keep and bear arms without the right to acquire them?
 
Nor should there be. Buying, selling, trading, manufacturing, or otherwise exchanging arms must be included in keeping and bearing arms. What good is the right to keep and bear arms without the right to acquire them?

Tens of millions of guns have been bought by law abiding citizens after completing a background check.
 
Tens of millions of guns have been bought by law abiding citizens after completing a background check.



so what? far more votes have been cast after showing an ID
 
So background checks do not prevent law abiding people from purchasing guns, as some in the far right claim.

that is not the proper analysis

the laws you propose are not applicable to criminals seeking to sell guns

the fifth amendment precludes that

and the laws you want are designed to fail so someone like you-who is on record wanting complete gun bans-can argue that society needs to pass more laws.
 
you have failed to ever do any analysis

The proof is that background checks haven't stopped law abiding citizens from buying tens of millions of guns.

Show us your proof of how background checks have prevented law abiding citizens from buying guns..............
 
The proof is that background checks haven't stopped law abiding citizens from buying tens of millions of guns.

Show us your proof of how background checks have prevented law abiding citizens from buying guns..............


that is a moronic standard. You have to prove that universal background checks have decreased crime

you cannot
 
Nor should there be. Buying, selling, trading, manufacturing, or otherwise exchanging arms must be included in keeping and bearing arms. What good is the right to keep and bear arms without the right to acquire them?

that is a moronic standard. You have to prove that universal background checks have decreased crime

you cannot


Try to focus Mr. TurtleDude, you were defending Bob's statement that background checks do not let law abiding citizens acquire guns.

Where is your proof in this defense?
 
I like Israel's laws. In that country ... you better have a gawd damn good reason to want to own a WMD and be prepared to be on a public list so your neighbors and law enforcement know of you ... and your behavior best be stellar. The people who used WMD and mass murdered people in the United States in the past 20 years would not have passed the Israeli scrutiny.

As far as handguns for collection, security or guns for hunting or sport possibly less stringent checks.

I support second amendment rights yet I am sick of ***** men that think they need WMD to "feel" safe.

Oh and idiots ... lock your guns up and quit toting them around in public. Oh and another thought ... all of you who are scared ****less without your weapons ... You cannot bring them with you when you come to the hospitals with your diseases of lifestyle or your wounds of violence.

Get a grip people.
 
Personal insults + fractional support for your opinion = failure! :cool:

Let's see, there was no personal insult, and your ignorance of the law is not 'fractional support' on my end... so yes, your position has failed, like it has every time you have spoken out with your anti-gun nonsense.
 
this is complete silliness. what part of the constitution gave the federal government the power to restrict citizens owning firearms?
That makes no sense.

So everything the Constitution does not specifically restrict it's citizens from doing/owning means they should be able to do/own without any background check or restrictions?

Okay.

So then by your logic, any American should be able to fly a plane or build a nuclear reactor or drive any size of vehicle/boat (including ocean liners) or sell heroin or practise medicine or sell weapons to other countries and so on...all WITHOUT ANY federal restrictions.



And where exactly in the post you quoted did I say ANYTHING about ownership restrictions?

The answer is: I did not.

I strictly was talking about background checks.
 
Republican Senator With An ‘A’ Rating From NRA Open To Universal Background Checks

"Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) is the latest Republican considering legislation to strengthen gun laws, despite his history of opposition to gun regulations.

In a handful of town halls throughout southern Iowa this week, Grassley was repeatedly asked his views on stronger gun laws. He made clear that he would oppose an assault weapons ban, but said he’d consider legislation on extended magazine clips and universal background checks.

“I’m going to see what the language of the amendment is,” Grassley told a constituent on Wednesday in Indianola when asked about a poll showing 88 percent of Iowans supporting universal background checks. He noted that although he’d opposed universal background checks in the past, he would consider such legislation this time around."
 
That makes no sense.

So everything the Constitution does not specifically restrict it's citizens from doing/owning means they should be able to do/own without any background check or restrictions?

Okay.

So then by your logic, any American should be able to fly a plane or build a nuclear reactor or drive any size of vehicle/boat (including ocean liners) or sell heroin or practise medicine or sell weapons to other countries and so on...all WITHOUT ANY federal restrictions.



And where exactly in the post you quoted did I say ANYTHING about ownership restrictions?

The answer is: I did not.

I strictly was talking about background checks.

Obviously, I phrased that wrong.

I meant that I am not saying that only military personnel, cops, security, etc. can own guns.

I am saying that only these people should be able to purchase weapons without background checks.


There is NO WAY you are going to convince me that some yahoo off the street is going to drop dead because he has to pass a background check before he can buy a gun.

If he passes - no problem.

If he doesn't - he should not own a gun in the first place.


As for what constitutes a restriction?

Well, that's up to the voters to decide.


And if you and others have a problem with that are just going to have to live with that.

Because clearly this is the way most Americans want it.

And for once - I agree with them.
 
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Obviously, I phrased that wrong.

I meant that I am not saying that only military personnel, cops, security, etc. can own guns.

I am saying that only these people should be able to purchase weapons without background checks.

No reason that they shoudl be treated any different than other Citizens.

It is notable that police officers, military personnel, and so on, do not usually buy the guns that they use in their duties—these are provided to them by their employers.

As far as purchasing firearms of their won, for their own personal use, nothing about their position entitles them to be treated any differently than anyone else.



There is NO WAY you are going to convince me that some yahoo off the street is going to drop dead because he has to pass a background check before he can buy a gun.

No yahoo is going to drop dead, either, if he is required to pass a “literacy test” or pay a “poll tax” before he is allowed to vote.

So what?

There is nothing about rights such that the fact that someone will not drop dead if he is denied a particular right, or forced to endure unreasonable obstacles to the exercise thereof, provides any valid excuse for violating that right.

As a matter of fact, it also so happens that nobody is going to drop dead if government keeps its filthy hands out of things that are not its business, and allows the people the free and proper exercise of all their rights.



As for what constitutes a restriction?

Well, that's up to the voters to decide.

No, it's not. Not, at least, until there's a strong enough consensus to pass a Constitutional amendment that supersedes the Second Amendment. Until that happens, the Second Amendment stands exactly as it was ratified more than two centuries ago—the people have a right to keep and bear arms, and any infringement of this right is strictly forbidden. This means any effort on the part of government to discriminate against any free citizens who wish to exercise this right, and this means any efforts on the part of government to impose any background checks, permits, or other hoops through which a citizen must jump before he is allowed to exercise this right.
 
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No reason that they shoudl be treated any different than other Citizens.

It is notable that police officers, military personnel, and so on, do not usually buy the guns that they use in their duties—these are provided to them by their employers.

As far as purchasing firearms of their won, for their own personal use, nothing about their position entitles them to be treated any differently than anyone else.





No yahoo is going to drop dead, either, if he is required to pass a “literacy test” or pay a “poll tax” before he is allowed to vote.

So what?

There is nothing about rights such that the fact that someone will not drop dead if he is denied a particular right, or forced to endure unreasonable obstacles to the exercise thereof, provides any valid excuse for violating that right.

As a matter of fact, it also so happens that nobody is going to drop dead if government keeps its filthy hands out of things that are not its business, and allows the people the free and proper exercise of all their rights.





No, it's not. Not, at least, until there's a strong enough consensus to pass a Constitutional amendment that supersedes the Second Amendment. Until that happens, the Second Amendment stands exactly as it was ratified more than two centuries ago—the people have a right to keep and bear arms, and any infringement of this right is strictly forbidden. This means any effort on the part of government to discriminate against any free citizens who wish to exercise this right, and this means any efforts on the part of government to impose any background checks, permits, or other hoops through which a citizen must jump before he is allowed to exercise this right.
Okay....

I will put it clear...I am not interested in your opinions (nor are you interested in mine). I am only interested in links to unbiased, facts/data that you can present.

Either present more of the latter and less of the former or this discussion is over.

Life is waaaay. To short for pointless, round and round, emotion based debates.

No offence.


Have a nice day.
 
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Most American gun violence is gang related. Gun restrictions won't change that. When they are committed to killing each other they will obtain their weapons by any means possible.

I'm sorry, but the figure stated in the OP is B.S. and I don't believe it for one second.
 
I'm sorry, but the figure stated in the OP is B.S. and I don't believe it for one second.

If there really was 90% support for any infringement of the right to keep and bear arms, then there absolutely would be a credible effort underway—if not already successfully completed—to amend the Constitution in order to legitimize that infringement. There is no such effort, because nobody who is in any position to initiate that effort believes that there is nearly enough support to successfully ratify such an amendment; and the degree of support that it would take for such an effort to be successful is significantly less than the 90% claimed in the OP and repeatedly throughout this thread. The 90% claim is a flat-out lie, and I have little doubt that those repeating it know full well that it is a lie.
 
That makes no sense.

So everything the Constitution does not specifically restrict it's citizens from doing/owning means they should be able to do/own without any background check or restrictions?
Okay.

So then by your logic, any American should be able to fly a plane or build a nuclear reactor or drive any size of vehicle/boat (including ocean liners) or sell heroin or practise medicine or sell weapons to other countries and so on...all WITHOUT ANY federal restrictions.



And where exactly in the post you quoted did I say ANYTHING about ownership restrictions?

The answer is: I did not.

I strictly was talking about background checks.


so you think the federal government should have powers not delegated to it? Your attitude is why we have an out of control deficit, a huge federal government and less and less freedom. You think every problem requires federal action whether or not its constitutional or not. State law can handle all the stuff you are in a tizzy over
 
I like Israel's laws. In that country ... you better have a gawd damn good reason to want to own a WMD and be prepared to be on a public list so your neighbors and law enforcement know of you ... and your behavior best be stellar. The people who used WMD and mass murdered people in the United States in the past 20 years would not have passed the Israeli scrutiny.

As far as handguns for collection, security or guns for hunting or sport possibly less stringent checks.

I support second amendment rights yet I am sick of ***** men that think they need WMD to "feel" safe.

Oh and idiots ... lock your guns up and quit toting them around in public. Oh and another thought ... all of you who are scared ****less without your weapons ... You cannot bring them with you when you come to the hospitals with your diseases of lifestyle or your wounds of violence.

Get a grip people.

wow this is a hysterical level of stupid. You don't support second amendment rights anymore than you have a clue what a WMD is.
 
Try to focus Mr. TurtleDude, you were defending Bob's statement that background checks do not let law abiding citizens acquire guns.

Where is your proof in this defense?

that's rich coming from one of your posts. You want to pass new laws that have no constitutional authority and won't even apply to many criminals. YOU have the DUTY to prove that your proposed law will actually benefit society (hassling conservatives is not a benefit btw). You have utterly failed to do that. WHEN we point out all the problems in your bill, what do you do? Do you actually bring forth empirical data demonstrating your schemes will decrease crime? NO

You do one or two things

1) Whine that 90% of the public supports what you want without any real proof

2) repeat the same crap of "extreme right wing"
 
so you think the federal government should have powers not delegated to it? Your attitude is why we have an out of control deficit, a huge federal government and less and less freedom. You think every problem requires federal action whether or not its constitutional or not. State law can handle all the stuff you are in a tizzy over

Ummm....no.

Can you people not go on facts and less on assumptions?

I did not say I support the government having control over the above things. I was using them as an example against your statement.

For the record, I am for free market, a balanced budget, slashing the military budget, pulling all the troops home, change massive welfare to government emergency shelters (at a fraction of the cost), free speech at all times, close Gitmo, end the Fed, closing many federal departments, reduce taxes, a return to the gold standard, allowing all legal gun owners to have carry permits, legalize all drugs...just to name a few.


If you are going to put words in my mouth, find someone else to debate with.

I have better things to do then correct your misinformation.

I used to respect you as a debater....but you seem to have changed since I have been away.


Have a nice day.
 
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Ummm....no.

Can you people not go on facts and less on assumptions?

I did not say I support the government having control over the above things. I was using them as an example against your statement.

For the record, I am for free market, a balanced budget, slashing the military budget, pulling all the troops home, change massive welfare to government emergency shelters (at a fraction of the cost), free speech at all times, close Gitmo, end the Fed, closing many federal departments, reduce taxes, a return to the gold standard, allowing all legal gun owners to have carry permits, legalize all drugs...just to name a few.


If you are going to put words in my mouth, find someone else to debate with.

I have better things to do then correct your misinformation.

I used to respect you as a debater....but you seem to have changed since I have been away.


Have a nice day.
so you deny saying that the government should have that power?
 
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