View Poll Results: Do you support universal background checks?

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  • Yes

    68 45.64%
  • No

    81 54.36%
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Thread: Universal background checks

  1. #641
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    If a person is in the business of regularly purchasing guns to then sell for a profit an FFL is required and all Federal laws and regulations must be followed...

    Not at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Gun shows, Internet keep weapons flowing around background checks

    "The rest are an assortment of private sellers, many looking to sell or trade individual guns or downsize large personal collections. But among them are private sellers who look very much like licensed dealers.

    It is not uncommon, members of the industry said, for these individuals to set up at show after show, flipping guns, as it were, and engaging in what is essentially a professional gun-dealing operation — without the regulation that goes along with it. And that practice is irritating to more than just those sounding the alarm about the dangers of unfettered gun sales.

    Bill Bernstein, owner of East Side Gun Shop in East Nashville, objects to these ostensibly casual sellers on business grounds. Strictly speaking, they don’t pose direct competition to his business, since he stays away from gun shows. But their regular activities end up looking very similar to his, just without the rules, regulation and red tape.

    “It’s their ‘private collection,’ ” he said, “[but] their private collection changes every week, and every week or every gun show they’re out there with a different table of guns, buying, selling, trading. I’m sorry, to me that person is an unlicensed dealer.”

    Bernstein said the problem is with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives’ somewhat amorphous definition of the term “dealer.” The bureau defines a dealer as a person “who devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms ... with the principal objective of livelihood and profit.” At the point when a person is selling and trading firearms as a means to obtain other firearms, which they then intend to sell and trade, they’re encroaching on that definition, Bernstein said.

    I wanted to engage in this business,” he said, “I went and got a license. I have to go through inspections periodically, I have to present records to ATF when they come calling — and they did last week — I have to pay sales tax on whatever I sell. And these guys don’t.

    "Under the guise of a casual private sale, these unlicensed dealers are able to operate outside of rules and regulations, such as required background checks, that would typically govern sales of similar volume and frequency. On the flip side, they create a quasi-legitimate market where individuals who would otherwise be prohibited from obtaining a firearm can purchase one. It is a felony to knowingly sell a gun to a prohibited person, but without a required background check, the situation effectively becomes one of “don’t ask, don’t tell,” regardless of the intentions of the dealer."

    Gun shows, Internet keep weapons flowing around background checks | Nashville City Paper
    ......................
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #642
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Not at all.


    ......................
    You can reply with this BS all you like but you need to read 18 USC 921 as it contains the following...

    (21) The term "engaged in the business" means ... (C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section
    921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to
    dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with
    the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
    repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall
    not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or
    purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal
    collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his
    personal collection of firearms;

    (22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and
    profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of
    firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary
    gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating
    a personal firearms collection ...

    http://http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/921.html

    So, the persons described in your "reference" are in violation of current law...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  3. #643
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You didn't answer my question, how does a background check interfere with with interstate commerce?
    Your "question" seems to morph a bit with each post. The point is that BG checks have nothing directly to do with interstate commerce. Would it be constitutional to refuse to sell flamable liquids, cars, knives or any other "potentially dangerous" product to a convicted felon or mentally "challenged" citizen? Don't get me wrong here, as I do not object to restricting the rights of folks after due process convictions/adjudications. What I fail to see is any linkage of BG checks and interstate commerce at all.

    What is nonsense, is that simply because FFL dealers now are the only "private" folks with NICS database access, that they be forced to perform additional nanny duties to sanction private gun (ammo?) sales for which they have no interest. To give them a "false" interest the gov't must invent a "service fee", essentailly a bribe, to make it "profitable" for them to play along. I am sure that car dealers would feel better if they were required to play middle man, for a 10% fee, to sanction all "private" car sales too.

    The only reason that the FFL dealers were "chosen" for that position is that they now are the official (unofficial?) gun sale "record keepers" for the federal (state?) gov't, a very controversial role. Since they are not "technically" gov't employees, they can be said not to be keeping records "for the gov't" but they are required by law to do so, allowing the gov't 100% access to them (at any time) w/o any search warrants or court orders at all. An ingenious scheme to have the federal gov't keep very accurate and complete records of all US gun sales w/o actually "really" doing so legally.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #644
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You know...for someone that named themselves "mr4anarchy" you sure do like to support the government alot don't you?
    I'm a walking contradiction.

    I'm justing pointing out that "infringe" or similar words are all over the 1st Amendment. And we don't allow human sacrifices for Pagans.

  5. #645
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by mr4anarchy View Post
    I'm a walking contradiction.

    I'm justing pointing out that "infringe" or similar words are all over the 1st Amendment. And we don't allow human sacrifices for Pagans.
    I do not recall "infringe" being mentioned in the First...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  6. #646
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    You can reply with this BS all you like but you need to read 18 USC 921 as it contains the following...

    (21) The term "engaged in the business" means ... (C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section
    921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to
    dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with
    the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
    repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall
    not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or
    purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal
    collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his
    personal collection of firearms;

    (22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and
    profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of
    firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary
    gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating
    a personal firearms collection ...

    http://http://law.onecle.com/uscode/18/921.html

    So, the persons described in your "reference" are in violation of current law...

    Private sellers fall through a loophole that allows them avoid that definition in 40 states, that is why it is being taken up by Congress as soon as they return from Easter break.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #647
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Private sellers fall through a loophole that allows them avoid that definition in 40 states, that is why it is being taken up by Congress as soon as they return from Easter break.
    Don't act like your stupid. This is the U.S. Code. Your bitch is that it's not being enforced. If we would simply apply the laws on the books, your concerns would be alleviated...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  8. #648
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Your "question" seems to morph a bit with each post. The point is that BG checks have nothing directly to do with interstate commerce. Would it be constitutional to refuse to sell flamable liquids, cars, knives or any other "potentially dangerous" product to a convicted felon or mentally "challenged" citizen? Don't get me wrong here, as I do not object to restricting the rights of folks after due process convictions/adjudications. What I fail to see is any linkage of BG checks and interstate commerce at all.
    Me either, perhaps you can explain that to the TurtleDude.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    there is no proper constitutional basis for the federal government to mandate these checks which-by law-only involve INTRASTATE activity


    What is nonsense, is that simply because FFL dealers now are the only "private" folks with NICS database access, that they be forced to perform additional nanny duties to sanction private gun (ammo?) sales for which they have no interest. To give them a "false" interest the gov't must invent a "service fee", essentailly a bribe, to make it "profitable" for them to play along. I am sure that car dealers would feel better if they were required to play middle man, for a 10% fee, to sanction all "private" car sales too.

    The only reason that the FFL dealers were "chosen" for that position is that they now are the official (unofficial?) gun sale "record keepers" for the federal (state?) gov't, a very controversial role. Since they are not "technically" gov't employees, they can be said not to be keeping records "for the gov't" but they are required by law to do so, allowing the gov't 100% access to them (at any time) w/o any search warrants or court orders at all. An ingenious scheme to have the federal gov't keep very accurate and complete records of all US gun sales w/o actually "really" doing so legally.
    If you think you have a case, it should not be too hard to find some gun manufactures to take it court!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #649
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Me either, perhaps you can explain that to the TurtleDude.







    If you think you have a case, it should not be too hard to find some gun manufactures to take it court!
    Are you kidding me? Gun manufacturers would like gun resales to be harder (and much more expensive), as it helps them sell more new guns.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #650
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Don't act like your stupid. This is the U.S. Code. Your bitch is that it's not being enforced. If we would simply apply the laws on the books, your concerns would be alleviated...
    We will see if that is a legitimate argument if it is brought in the debate this month in Congress. My guess is that it won't be.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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