View Poll Results: Do you support universal background checks?

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  • Yes

    68 45.64%
  • No

    81 54.36%
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Thread: Universal background checks

  1. #91
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That makes no sense.

    So everything the Constitution does not specifically restrict it's citizens from doing/owning means they should be able to do/own without any background check or restrictions?

    Okay.

    So then by your logic, any American should be able to fly a plane or build a nuclear reactor or drive any size of vehicle/boat (including ocean liners) or sell heroin or practise medicine or sell weapons to other countries and so on...all WITHOUT ANY federal restrictions.



    And where exactly in the post you quoted did I say ANYTHING about ownership restrictions?

    The answer is: I did not.

    I strictly was talking about background checks.
    Obviously, I phrased that wrong.

    I meant that I am not saying that only military personnel, cops, security, etc. can own guns.

    I am saying that only these people should be able to purchase weapons without background checks.


    There is NO WAY you are going to convince me that some yahoo off the street is going to drop dead because he has to pass a background check before he can buy a gun.

    If he passes - no problem.

    If he doesn't - he should not own a gun in the first place.


    As for what constitutes a restriction?

    Well, that's up to the voters to decide.


    And if you and others have a problem with that are just going to have to live with that.

    Because clearly this is the way most Americans want it.

    And for once - I agree with them.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-27-13 at 04:45 AM.

  2. #92
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Obviously, I phrased that wrong.

    I meant that I am not saying that only military personnel, cops, security, etc. can own guns.

    I am saying that only these people should be able to purchase weapons without background checks.
    No reason that they shoudl be treated any different than other Citizens.

    It is notable that police officers, military personnel, and so on, do not usually buy the guns that they use in their duties—these are provided to them by their employers.

    As far as purchasing firearms of their won, for their own personal use, nothing about their position entitles them to be treated any differently than anyone else.



    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    There is NO WAY you are going to convince me that some yahoo off the street is going to drop dead because he has to pass a background check before he can buy a gun.
    No yahoo is going to drop dead, either, if he is required to pass a “literacy test” or pay a “poll tax” before he is allowed to vote.

    So what?

    There is nothing about rights such that the fact that someone will not drop dead if he is denied a particular right, or forced to endure unreasonable obstacles to the exercise thereof, provides any valid excuse for violating that right.

    As a matter of fact, it also so happens that nobody is going to drop dead if government keeps its filthy hands out of things that are not its business, and allows the people the free and proper exercise of all their rights.



    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    As for what constitutes a restriction?

    Well, that's up to the voters to decide.
    No, it's not. Not, at least, until there's a strong enough consensus to pass a Constitutional amendment that supersedes the Second Amendment. Until that happens, the Second Amendment stands exactly as it was ratified more than two centuries ago—the people have a right to keep and bear arms, and any infringement of this right is strictly forbidden. This means any effort on the part of government to discriminate against any free citizens who wish to exercise this right, and this means any efforts on the part of government to impose any background checks, permits, or other hoops through which a citizen must jump before he is allowed to exercise this right.
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 02-27-13 at 05:04 AM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    No reason that they shoudl be treated any different than other Citizens.

    It is notable that police officers, military personnel, and so on, do not usually buy the guns that they use in their duties—these are provided to them by their employers.

    As far as purchasing firearms of their won, for their own personal use, nothing about their position entitles them to be treated any differently than anyone else.





    No yahoo is going to drop dead, either, if he is required to pass a “literacy test” or pay a “poll tax” before he is allowed to vote.

    So what?

    There is nothing about rights such that the fact that someone will not drop dead if he is denied a particular right, or forced to endure unreasonable obstacles to the exercise thereof, provides any valid excuse for violating that right.

    As a matter of fact, it also so happens that nobody is going to drop dead if government keeps its filthy hands out of things that are not its business, and allows the people the free and proper exercise of all their rights.





    No, it's not. Not, at least, until there's a strong enough consensus to pass a Constitutional amendment that supersedes the Second Amendment. Until that happens, the Second Amendment stands exactly as it was ratified more than two centuries ago—the people have a right to keep and bear arms, and any infringement of this right is strictly forbidden. This means any effort on the part of government to discriminate against any free citizens who wish to exercise this right, and this means any efforts on the part of government to impose any background checks, permits, or other hoops through which a citizen must jump before he is allowed to exercise this right.
    Okay....

    I will put it clear...I am not interested in your opinions (nor are you interested in mine). I am only interested in links to unbiased, facts/data that you can present.

    Either present more of the latter and less of the former or this discussion is over.

    Life is waaaay. To short for pointless, round and round, emotion based debates.

    No offence.


    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-27-13 at 06:10 AM.

  4. #94
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Most American gun violence is gang related. Gun restrictions won't change that. When they are committed to killing each other they will obtain their weapons by any means possible.

    I'm sorry, but the figure stated in the OP is B.S. and I don't believe it for one second.

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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I'm sorry, but the figure stated in the OP is B.S. and I don't believe it for one second.
    If there really was 90% support for any infringement of the right to keep and bear arms, then there absolutely would be a credible effort underway—if not already successfully completed—to amend the Constitution in order to legitimize that infringement. There is no such effort, because nobody who is in any position to initiate that effort believes that there is nearly enough support to successfully ratify such an amendment; and the degree of support that it would take for such an effort to be successful is significantly less than the 90% claimed in the OP and repeatedly throughout this thread. The 90% claim is a flat-out lie, and I have little doubt that those repeating it know full well that it is a lie.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #96
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That makes no sense.

    So everything the Constitution does not specifically restrict it's citizens from doing/owning means they should be able to do/own without any background check or restrictions?
    Okay.

    So then by your logic, any American should be able to fly a plane or build a nuclear reactor or drive any size of vehicle/boat (including ocean liners) or sell heroin or practise medicine or sell weapons to other countries and so on...all WITHOUT ANY federal restrictions.



    And where exactly in the post you quoted did I say ANYTHING about ownership restrictions?

    The answer is: I did not.

    I strictly was talking about background checks.

    so you think the federal government should have powers not delegated to it? Your attitude is why we have an out of control deficit, a huge federal government and less and less freedom. You think every problem requires federal action whether or not its constitutional or not. State law can handle all the stuff you are in a tizzy over



  7. #97
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I like Israel's laws. In that country ... you better have a gawd damn good reason to want to own a WMD and be prepared to be on a public list so your neighbors and law enforcement know of you ... and your behavior best be stellar. The people who used WMD and mass murdered people in the United States in the past 20 years would not have passed the Israeli scrutiny.

    As far as handguns for collection, security or guns for hunting or sport possibly less stringent checks.

    I support second amendment rights yet I am sick of pussy men that think they need WMD to "feel" safe.

    Oh and idiots ... lock your guns up and quit toting them around in public. Oh and another thought ... all of you who are scared ****less without your weapons ... You cannot bring them with you when you come to the hospitals with your diseases of lifestyle or your wounds of violence.

    Get a grip people.
    wow this is a hysterical level of stupid. You don't support second amendment rights anymore than you have a clue what a WMD is.



  8. #98
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Try to focus Mr. TurtleDude, you were defending Bob's statement that background checks do not let law abiding citizens acquire guns.

    Where is your proof in this defense?
    that's rich coming from one of your posts. You want to pass new laws that have no constitutional authority and won't even apply to many criminals. YOU have the DUTY to prove that your proposed law will actually benefit society (hassling conservatives is not a benefit btw). You have utterly failed to do that. WHEN we point out all the problems in your bill, what do you do? Do you actually bring forth empirical data demonstrating your schemes will decrease crime? NO

    You do one or two things

    1) Whine that 90% of the public supports what you want without any real proof

    2) repeat the same crap of "extreme right wing"



  9. #99
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so you think the federal government should have powers not delegated to it? Your attitude is why we have an out of control deficit, a huge federal government and less and less freedom. You think every problem requires federal action whether or not its constitutional or not. State law can handle all the stuff you are in a tizzy over
    Ummm....no.

    Can you people not go on facts and less on assumptions?

    I did not say I support the government having control over the above things. I was using them as an example against your statement.

    For the record, I am for free market, a balanced budget, slashing the military budget, pulling all the troops home, change massive welfare to government emergency shelters (at a fraction of the cost), free speech at all times, close Gitmo, end the Fed, closing many federal departments, reduce taxes, a return to the gold standard, allowing all legal gun owners to have carry permits, legalize all drugs...just to name a few.


    If you are going to put words in my mouth, find someone else to debate with.

    I have better things to do then correct your misinformation.

    I used to respect you as a debater....but you seem to have changed since I have been away.


    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-27-13 at 09:15 AM.

  10. #100
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    Re: Universal background checks

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Ummm....no.

    Can you people not go on facts and less on assumptions?

    I did not say I support the government having control over the above things. I was using them as an example against your statement.

    For the record, I am for free market, a balanced budget, slashing the military budget, pulling all the troops home, change massive welfare to government emergency shelters (at a fraction of the cost), free speech at all times, close Gitmo, end the Fed, closing many federal departments, reduce taxes, a return to the gold standard, allowing all legal gun owners to have carry permits, legalize all drugs...just to name a few.


    If you are going to put words in my mouth, find someone else to debate with.

    I have better things to do then correct your misinformation.

    I used to respect you as a debater....but you seem to have changed since I have been away.


    Have a nice day.
    so you deny saying that the government should have that power?



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