View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
  • Undecided

    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #71
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Are we going to pay for psychiatrists to "examine" everyone before they are allowed to have their procedures reversed and have children? They are only people too and also prone to making errors.

  2. #72
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I agree with that, of course, but I don't know if that is the right answer or not. Who is to say that these people will not abuse, neglect their children once they have their procedures reversed? There are NO guarantees, especially when it comes to something complicated like human beings. Just sounds a little too intrusive for my liking.
    It is intrusive. As I said earlier, it is essentially one of my greatest departures from libertarianism.

    For the record, I do not think the people who oppose these ideas are being irrational or stupid. It's a huge dilemma. I have a pretty cold hard non-emotional viewpoint on countless issues. But when it comes to severely dysfunctional people's right to reproduce vs. their would-be children's right not to have to endure their parents' severe dysfunction, I just opt toward the children and wish to prevent them being brought into the situation in the first place.

    I don't claim to know the best way to address the problem but, for starters, I wish it were not so taboo.

  3. #73
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Are we going to pay for psychiatrists to "examine" everyone before they are allowed to have their procedures reversed and have children?
    No. Psychiatrists are medical and they're too expensive. The criteria would be examined by eligibility technicians, which state governments already employ to see if families legitimately qualify for the many benefits the state government administers or co-administers.

  4. #74
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Nah, I like my worldview better. I'm not a psychopath so I don't have the luxury of disregarding human life for my own self interest.
    Yeah, congratulations. You're yet another cog to a worthless, hyper-dependent society that is a leech on worthwhile members...

    ...but you're not a psychopath. Good for you.

    Here's a cookie. Now go share it with all of that selfish scum you support.

  5. #75
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Okay, but serious question: What if no such program exists that is shown by research to be effective? Your suggestion implicitly assumes that such a program exists out there that is effective. The social problems that underlie the abuse of children and the neglect of their needs is profound and pervasive. Basically I'm asking... what if your suggestion, reasonable and humane as it is, doesn't cut it?
    I don't really buy the idea that there aren't any effective programs if only because there are already plenty of effective addiction, parenting and education programs. But if by some crazy chance, none would work on a certain part of the population, I would say that the next step would be working on a more effective foster care and adoption system. There is definitely no way that I would ever consider requiring licenses for parenting though. That's a good way to screw up society.

    I disagree with every part of that except the classism part. It is absolutely classist, what we're talking about. The other types of prejudice are usually mistaken for class differences, in my opinion.
    Regardless, I can 100% guarantee that a lot of people would see it as a race issue as well and I can 100% guarantee that it would severely increase racial tension to a point where any progress made in convincing the black population to let "old wounds heal" would go out the window for a lot of them. Moreover, the problem with the "it's class not race" argument is the class and race are often tied together so class issues are often race issues as well. It's not a matter of one or the other. It's a matter of both at the same time.

  6. #76
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No. Psychiatrists are medical and they're too expensive. The criteria would be examined by eligibility technicians, which state governments already employ to see if families legitimately qualify for the many benefits the state government administers or co-administers.
    What are "eligibility technicians?" Is that a fancy way to say social workers? As if they're all so reliable? Like I said, who is going to pay for this HUGE workload? Do you realize the amount of work and paperwork that would be?

    OMG! I can just IMAGINE the complications that would arise!

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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yeah, congratulations. You're yet another cog to a worthless, hyper-dependent society that is a leech on worthwhile members...

    ...but you're not a psychopath. Good for you.

    Here's a cookie. Now go share it with all of that selfish scum you support.
    Psychopaths aren't worthwhile members so the entire premise of your argument is flawed. Also, I don't take cookies from psychopaths, duh.

  8. #78
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I don't really buy the idea that there aren't any effective programs if only because there are already plenty of effective addiction, parenting and education programs.
    I'm not saying there are no such programs, I'm saying "what if there aren't?"

    There is definitely no way that I would ever consider requiring licenses for parenting though. That's a good way to screw up society.
    I don't think it would "screw up society," I think it could decrease the "screwed up" already in society.

    Regardless, I can 100% guarantee that a lot of people would see it as a race issue as well and I can 100% guarantee that it would severely increase racial tension to a point where any progress made in convincing the black population to let "old wounds heal" would go out the window for a lot of them.
    I don't think you can guarantee the latter, but I see what you're saying.

    Moreover, the problem with the "it's class not race" argument is the class and race are often tied together so class issues are often race issues as well. It's not a matter of one or the other. It's a matter of both at the same time.
    I really think, especially this day and age, that it's mostly class differences and that these are mistaken for race differences.

  9. #79
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What are "eligibility technicians?" Is that a fancy way to say social workers?
    No. Social workers are paid even more than eligibility techs. Eligibility technicians are entry-level data crunchers who determine eligibility for public assistance.

    Like I said, who is going to pay for this HUGE workload?
    The same people who already are paying for this huge workload.

    Do you realize the amount of work and paperwork that would be?
    Initially it would be an influx. In the long run it might reduce the need for eligibility techs to review benefit applications.

  10. #80
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    re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Well, we we could stop encouraging people who cannot afford them by not giving additional benefits for additional children. And before all the autocrats say it never happens that way, it happens that way......
    you should freely have as many children as you can afford

    but once you start imposing costs on the rest of us by breeding when you cannot pay for your spawn then the rest of us should have some say in your activities that impose costs on us



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