View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
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    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #711
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Sheesh, you're the 4th person in the last handful of pages to completely muck up a simple analogy. Employment ≠ Loss of Freedom. Welfare Check ≠ Loss of Freedom. Gonna have to start typing in larger font.
    No, employment doesn't equal less freedom. You work for your own benefit while providing a service to the employer. As a result you get paid and can partake in more activities. If anything this is more freedom, not less.

    I'm assuming however you are just saying that having to work to gain these things is less freedom, but considering you need to somehow get other people to grant you permission to have access to what they are providing that point has no where to go.

  2. #712
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, employment doesn't equal less freedom. You work for your own benefit while providing a service to the employer. As a result you get paid and can partake in more activities. If anything this is more freedom, not less.

    I'm assuming however you are just saying that having to work to gain these things is less freedom, but considering you need to somehow get other people to grant you permission to have access to what they are providing that point has no where to go.
    Those little thingies (≠) mean "does not equal."

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Those little thingies mean "does not equal."
    Ok, so what is your point? Workers aren't losing freedom and the connection with the employer no longer exists. That is not the case with welfare. In welfare the connection is not lost and is instead constantly maintained with the taxpayer/government
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-26-13 at 10:31 PM. Reason: Edited out after a351 edited post

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    We already have that, and what happens is the person has another child, and therefore the "time allotted" starts all over again once the new child is conceived. The pregnancy, any complications that occur during the pregnancy to either the mother or fetus, the birthing and delivery and any complications, and then the new baby - all paid for with taxpayer dollars.
    They (or WE) already do that whenever someone is collecting public assistance. Their medical care is already paid for. If there are any pregnancy or child-birth/bearing complications, we are responsible for that too.



    Of course not. The original idea for public assistance was temporary help during financial hardship. It was NEVER meant for people to depend upon for support like some do. It was never meant to allow people to have MORE children that they cannot afford. That was never the concept. Educational opportunities abound when you are collecting, and a lot for free. The idea is to better yourself so that you can be independent, not to make your situation even WORSE than when you began.
    The idea is still that government assistance is temporary. That concept hasnt changed at all. It isnt just a walk in the park you won the damn lottery, in fact its quite the opposite. That assistance cannot sustain a family or really a individual. Medical under medicaid is a joke, good luck finding a doctor that actually takes medicaid these days. ANd if you do your choices are very limited and they are more likely to send you home rather than actually try to figure out what actually wrong with you.

    We don't pay for their kids. They do. They work for their money and use that money to pay for their own children. Working for the government is completely different than receiving public assistance. Stop trying to be coy. It isn't working.
    Yes we actually do pay for the kids that people have when in the military. Yes the parents worked but even the parents are on our dime. We dont get to tell the parents in the military that they must get long term birth control because that is not the Governments job at all. The same goes for parents that are getting government assistance it doesnt matter whether they are working or not the government cannot dictate such a personal decision period. ANd to do so is exactly what a Authoritarian Government would do. ANd you justify Authoritarian anti liberty and freedom behavior by our government because in this situation you think it is a good thing to do. The fact is that yyou want open a door that once is open will be very hard to shut. If it is Constitutional for the Government to dictate to one section of the population personal matters then you set the legal precedence for the government to dictate to us all.

    My point and my argument has nothing to do with protecting welfare or lazy people it has everything to do with the Constitution and out liberties and freedoms. I wasnt being coy by no means I asked specific questions that you chose to deflect. WHich tells me a lot.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The idea is still that government assistance is temporary. That concept hasnt changed at all. It isnt just a walk in the park you won the damn lottery, in fact its quite the opposite. That assistance cannot sustain a family or really a individual. Medical under medicaid is a joke, good luck finding a doctor that actually takes medicaid these days. ANd if you do your choices are very limited and they are more likely to send you home rather than actually try to figure out what actually wrong with you.
    I collected assistance when I was 16 and 17 years old. I know ALL about it. I've known PLENTY of people who are perfectly happy to sit home on their asses, have children and collect welfare. If you don't think there are people who do this, then you are in denial. Some people are satisfied with what they earn on AFDC or welfare.

    About Medicaid, you are WRONG. Medicaid was the best insurance plan I've ever had. It covers 100% of everything. No copays or anything. I never had problems getting a doctor's appointment and I never felt as if my medical care was skimped on. I am speaking from firsthand knowledge here. You?



    Yes we actually do pay for the kids that people have when in the military. Yes the parents worked but even the parents are on our dime. We dont get to tell the parents in the military that they must get long term birth control because that is not the Governments job at all. The same goes for parents that are getting government assistance it doesnt matter whether they are working or not the government cannot dictate such a personal decision period. ANd to do so is exactly what a Authoritarian Government would do. ANd you justify Authoritarian anti liberty and freedom behavior by our government because in this situation you think it is a good thing to do. The fact is that yyou want open a door that once is open will be very hard to shut. If it is Constitutional for the Government to dictate to one section of the population personal matters then you set the legal precedence for the government to dictate to us all.
    This is a completely ridiculous analogy, and you know it. I refuse to compare military members who risk their lives for their country and work HARD for their money to welfare recipients. A totally BOGUS comparison.

    It's friggin birth control so that welfare recipients can't continue to have children and take advantage of the program, and it IS a good idea. You fear is unfounded.

    My point and my argument has nothing to do with protecting welfare or lazy people it has everything to do with the Constitution and out liberties and freedoms. I wasnt being coy by no means I asked specific questions that you chose to deflect. WHich tells me a lot.
    This does NOT go against anything in the Constitution, because the people I am referring to are collecting taxpayer money. There SHOULD be stipulations, and if someone doesn't like or agree with those stipulations, then they are more than FREE to not collect taxpayer money. We didn't ALWAYS have welfare you know. Welfare is something that is done out of the goodness of our hearts and nothing more. People are NOT entitled to it, and there is NOTHING wrong with having some stipulations in order to collect it.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    None, which is the gist of the argument. You've muddied one issue with another. Employment ≠ Loss of Freedom. Welfare Check ≠ Loss of Freedom. Got it?

    Should've stopped there. Individuals can currently procreate as they see fit, regardless of your feelings and wishes.

    Sure there is! If you disagree, just dig me up legal limitations pertaining children per family, and subsequently by income.
    Good Lord! You're just ignoring HUGE differences and that is just pure willful ignorance.

    Yes, smarty pants, we're talking hypothetical situations here. DUH!!!

    I think it's a great idea, and YOU have absolutely failed in proving otherwise. I guess the only left for you to do is to make ridiculous comparisons which really don't mean anything.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Do me a solid. Read through the series of posts that led to this one and get up to speed on just what's being argued here. Or just read the last half of the post you quoted. In neither case is said individual sacrificing freedom for security.
    THE POINT IS that people should not collect services while making their own situations even MORE impossible. That is sheer stupidity and nothing more or less, on the part of the individual and on our parts for enabling that irresponsible and pathetic behavior.

  8. #718
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I collected assistance when I was 16 and 17 years old. I know ALL about it. I've known PLENTY of people who are perfectly happy to sit home on their asses, have children and collect welfare. If you don't think there are people who do this, then you are in denial. Some people are satisfied with what they earn on AFDC or welfare.

    About Medicaid, you are WRONG. Medicaid was the best insurance plan I've ever had. It covers 100% of everything. No copays or anything. I never had problems getting a doctor's appointment and I never felt as if my medical care was skimped on. I am speaking from firsthand knowledge here. You?





    This is a completely ridiculous analogy, and you know it. I refuse to compare military members who risk their lives for their country and work HARD for their money to welfare recipients. A totally BOGUS comparison.

    It's friggin birth control so that welfare recipients can't continue to have children and take advantage of the program, and it IS a good idea. You fear is unfounded.



    This does NOT go against anything in the Constitution, because the people I am referring to are collecting taxpayer money. There SHOULD be stipulations, and if someone doesn't like or agree with those stipulations, then they are more than FREE to not collect taxpayer money. We didn't ALWAYS have welfare you know. Welfare is something that is done out of the goodness of our hearts and nothing more. People are NOT entitled to it, and there is NOTHING wrong with having some stipulations in order to collect it.
    ^ Good post. And I agree with every word.

    lol what makes me laugh are the people who bring the constitution into this debate. If we went by the constitution, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Federally funded welfare would not exist.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    ^ Good post. And I agree with every word.

    lol what makes me laugh are the people who bring the constitution into this debate. If we went by the constitution, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Federally funded welfare would not exist.
    It blows my mind how some seem to think that people are "entitled" to receive welfare benefits. They are NOT and there should most certainly be stipulations in order to collect it.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It blows my mind how some seem to think that people are "entitled" to receive welfare benefits. They are NOT and there should most certainly be stipulations in order to collect it.
    yeah where's my damn check-- Why the hell should i work at all when i can just sit on my keister and collect a friggin check instead? I've worked a number of unpleasant jobs to keep my family over that limit when my husband's checks were smaller. My neighbor gets SSI. Not a thing wrong with this bitch other than chronic laziness and a sense of entitlement. She's healthy enough to play sports, keep up her garden, and cheat on her boyfriend who has a job. She also gets foodstamps and medicaid. Meanwhile, I'm up by 6 each morning. It's nothing more than subsidizing less than average.

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