View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
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    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #701
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Let's put this in simpler terms. I receive a check from my employer. A company. An entity. I am no more beholden to said employer than a welfare recipient is to the federal branch, nor is either of us sacrificing our individual freedom. Just drop that whole analogy and move on.
    Yes, let's put in simpler terms. You are DOING something to earn the money and contributing to the success of a business when you have a job and actually work for your money. You then contribute that money into the economy and pay taxes.

    Your employer also has a level of dependence upon you to do your job and show up every day. The government nor taxpayer has no dependence on a person receiving public assistance. What is that person contributing?

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't want to see welfare end. I want to see it used as it was meant to be used, as a way to get temporary help when someone falls upon bad times and a way to even better oneself so that they can escape the cycle of poverty. I am totally sympathetic to someone who needs a helping hand because they fell on hard times or perhaps even made a mistake or an error in judgment. I don't believe in enabling irresponsible behavior though.
    The problem with your idea here is that welfare actually helps maintain the condition. The assumption you are running with is that with access to services they will have a better chance forward, but what you forgetting is the transaction and what occurs on that transaction and where the service is based. Welfare affects wages and increases profits and as such it makes the condition of poor harder, not better. All it does in the end is help out a few people on the poor end while hurting the rest of them, the rich on the other end and hurt just about about everyone else.

  3. #703
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Yes, let's put in simpler terms. You are DOING something to earn the money and contributing to the success of a business when you have a job and actually work for your money. You then contribute that money into the economy and pay taxes.
    Do me a solid. Read through the series of posts that led to this one and get up to speed on just what's being argued here. Or just read the last half of the post you quoted. In neither case is said individual sacrificing freedom for security.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The problem with your idea here is that welfare actually helps maintain the condition. The assumption you are running with is that with access to services they will have a better chance forward, but what you forgetting is the transaction and what occurs on that transaction and where the service is based. Welfare affects wages and increases profits and as such it makes the condition of poor harder, not better. All it does in the end is help out a few people on the poor end while hurting the rest of them, the rich on the other end and hurt just about about everyone else.
    But if there were some stipulations, it might be more helpful than what it is now. Such as mandatory job training and birth control.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Let's put this in simpler terms. I receive a check from my employer. A company. An entity. I am no more beholden to said employer than a welfare recipient is to the federal branch, nor is either of us sacrificing our individual freedom. Just drop that whole analogy and move on.
    How has that worked out in practice? I'm guessing extremely well, yes? You can make all the fairytales you want up, but the fact is a welfare receipt is not like an employee.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Do me a solid. Read through the series of posts that led to this one and get up to speed on just what's being argued here. Or just read the last half of the post you quoted. In neither case is said individual sacrificing freedom for security.
    What freedom is being sacrificed? You are trying to make it sound as if collecting welfare is somehow a right. It isn't. There is no right to collect public assistance. You ALREADY give up some privacy rights when you agree to take public assistance. Anyone is FREE to have children and pay for them themselves. Birth control is NOT unreasonable, nor is it horrible or nightmarish or any kind of an assault. There is no right to have more children than you can afford while collecting public assistance.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What freedom is being sacrificed?

    Anyone is FREE to have children and pay for them themselves.

    There is no right to have more children than you can afford while collecting public assistance.
    None, which is the gist of the argument. You've muddied one issue with another. Employment ≠ Loss of Freedom. Welfare Check ≠ Loss of Freedom. Got it?

    Should've stopped there. Individuals can currently procreate as they see fit, regardless of your feelings and wishes.

    Sure there is! If you disagree, just dig me up legal limitations pertaining children per family, and subsequently by income.
    Last edited by a351; 02-26-13 at 10:02 PM.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How has that worked out in practice? I'm guessing extremely well, yes? You can make all the fairytales you want up, but the fact is a welfare receipt is not like an employee.
    What on earth are you braying about? If my post was in Mandarin you wouldn't be farther off the mark.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    What on earth are you braying about? If my post was in Mandarin you wouldn't be farther off the mark.
    No, I was right on the mark. You want to pretend that a being a wage earner is somehow comparable to getting services at someone else's dime. To do this you have to ignore why the wages are given to worker, what has happened with welfare in the past and in the present and just how paying for something for others in such a way as welfare makes them more like children, not like workers. Tell me, what do think happens when someone is paying for your survival? Who do you think has the control in such a situation? I will give you a hint, its not the person getting something. If you are not pretending here than you just don't understand ownership, control structures and just how wages behave.
    Last edited by Henrin; 02-26-13 at 10:05 PM.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, I was right on the mark. You want to pretend that a being a wage earner is somehow comparable to getting services at someone else's dime. To do this you have to ignore why the wages are given to worker, what has happened with welfare in the past and in the present and just how paying for something for others in such a way as welfare makes them more like children, not like workers. Tell me, what do think happens when someone is paying for your survival? Who do you think has the control in such a situation? I will give you a hint, its not the person getting something. If you are not pretending here than you just don't understand ownership, control structures and just how wages behave.
    Sheesh, you're the 4th person in the last handful of pages to completely muck up a simple analogy. Employment ≠ Loss of Freedom. Welfare Check ≠ Loss of Freedom. Gonna have to start typing in larger font.

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