View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
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    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #621
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    taxes arent going anywhere so theres no sense of worrying about that

    if you are worried about the poor children then you shouldnt be worried about the taxes that might/could help them
    That doesn't even make any sense. There is nothing wrong with mandatory birth control for those who are too irresponsible to use it on their own and who keep having children that they cannot afford. THAT is abuse.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    nobody is saying that but how far are you willing to go to destroy americans freedons, rights and liberties?

    Id rather reform healthcare, foster-care and child care before i force medical procedure or meds on a person against their will, no thanks
    None of that stops people from having sex, having babies or making bad decisions. Birth control is one simple measure that could prevent a lot of misery.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't understand your question here. You cannot collect welfare for adult children. They are independent from their parents once they are an adult - a completely separate entity and responsible for their own lives.
    But the 18 year old could still live under the parents welfare paid for roof for free.
    Forget the seperate food preparation and rent paid - that would be ridiculously easy to fake. Just put a hot plate in your bedroom and give the parents cash each month - which the parents turn around and give back under the table.
    Plus, you are going to have to have government representatives physically monitor each family...which will cost tens of millions of dollars....at least.

    Again, I told you that I'm talking about long-term birth control. That 14-year-old would be considered a separate entity from her parents as well. If you are that age and you become a parent, you are eligible to collect welfare only if you have documentation that you buy and prepare your own food separately from your parents and that you pay some kind of room and board or rent to stay with them. Otherwise, the under-aged mother and her child would be considered part of the parent's family. That is how it works now, and I see no reason for that to change.

    I never said it was a "perfect" plan. I said it would help out.
    So, then a teenaged girl could have several children before she was 18 and still de classified as a dependent of her parents - all a okay according to the state.
    And then this young mother could give up custody of her children to her parents and they could raise them at state cost as dependents. Plus, the young mother could live for free at home and if she gets a cheap job to pay for food/clothing/bus pass - she could have her children raised by the state - all without ever having to be sterilized.


    Plus, the government will have to pay for tens of millions of sterilizations for eligible men and women (these people are broke - they cannot afford it). Which could run into 10's of billions of dollars.
    And, every lower class person who wants to be sterilized (like a man wanting a vasectomy) can now get it done for free from the governemnt - even if they have zero intention of applying for welfare (as long as they qualify for welfare). Again, more billions of dollars.


    And these are just loopholes I have thought off of the top of my head.

    Surely the masses will think of dozens more.

    I guarantee you, it will end up costing the government more money then it pays now.


    Plus, this sterilization program will incite gigantic resentment amongst the poor - who will gladly band together to do whatever they have to to fleece the system.

    The more government tries to clamp down on people - the more it unites the people in a common cause against the government.



    Finally, over 50% of Americans receive some kind of government assistance. There are over 44 million on food stamps alone.

    There is NO WAY this will ever pass Congress. And there is no chance a POTUS would support it - he/she's party would lose the next election for certain.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-26-13 at 08:05 PM.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    I read a story once about a mother who had to fight in court and spend thousands and thousands of dollars to have her adult mentally disabled daughter sterilized because she kept getting pregnant and leaving the children in the care of the mother, who was going broke trying to care for all of these kids (in addition to the court costs). God knows who the fathers were because that information was never known. Yet there were people who wanted to preserve this woman's right to continue to have children that she obviously was not mentally or financially capable of caring for.

    Long-term injection type of birth control could have solved this problem; no sterilization required. The only thing required is to see a physician every few months or so.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That doesn't even make any sense. There is nothing wrong with mandatory birth control for those who are too irresponsible to use it on their own and who keep having children that they cannot afford. THAT is abuse.
    nothing wrong with it if you want to rip up the constitution and step all over peoples rights, freedoms and liberties LOL

    you cant fore medicine and medical procedures on people thats insane
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    None of that stops people from having sex, having babies or making bad decisions. Birth control is one simple measure that could prevent a lot of misery.
    Very true and the government has no business stopping sound mind consenting adults from having sex

    NONE

    yes BC is a simple solution that must be CHOSEN
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    1.) nope it fails the logic test once we are talking about unsound minded people thats illogical
    Every state in the country protects children from abuse. Less than half the states extend protections to fetuses, even though that is perhaps the most critical period of development. I think all states should. Some ideas discussed in this thread are ways to do it (and do it well).

    2.) and your way neglects the responsibility to not take advantage of unsound minded people sorry theres others ways
    To stop a woman who is set on doing things that will irreparably damage her fetus from doing so, one or more of her rights/liberties must be suspended or terminated. So what are these other ways that would be effective in assuring no further harm to the fetus?

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    1.)Every state in the country protects children from abuse. Less than half the states protect fetuses from abuse. I think all states should. The ideas discussed in this thread are ways to do it (and do it well).



    2.)To stop a woman who is set on doing things that will irreparably damage her fetus from doing so, one or more of her rights/liberties must be suspended or terminated. So what are these "other ways" that would be effective in assuring no further harm to the fetus?
    1.) thats great you feel that way, entrapping unsound mind adults is not one of them, please stay on topic lol
    also ZEFs involve TWO people, children do not.

    Protecting a ZEF could very well endanger a woman so that type of blanket thinking is illogical in reality. Its a VERY grey area

    2.) depending on what "damage" to the fetus you are talking about there are none that id be willing to let this country pursue that i know of, nor would i want it to pursue it.

    But again it depends on what you are referring to specifically.
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    [QUOTE=DA60;1061511037]
    But the 18 year old could still live under the parents welfare paid for roof for free.
    What is your point here? If she is still living under her parents welfare, then she isn't collecting it herself. Therefore, she is not using any additional taxpayer monies and does NOT have her own claim to welfare benefits.

    Forget the seperate food preparation and rent paid - that would be ridiculously easy to fake. Just put a hot plate in your bedroom and give the parents cash each month - which the parents turn around and give back under the table.
    I don't understand how this point goes against long-term birth control. Welfare fraud happens. No plan would be perfect.

    Plus, you are going to have to have government representatives physically monitor each family...which will cost tens of millions of dollars....at least.
    Good Lord! I already said that when someone applies for benefits for a child or children, that is when the sign a form to agree to implantation of a long-term birth control method (the pill would probably be least preferable option), have the device implanted and see a physician on a regular basis to ensure compliance. Anyone who is on birth control is supposed to be under the care of a physician anyway, so that is nothing out of the ordinary.


    So, then a teenaged girl could have several children before she was 18 and still de classified as a dependent of her parents - all a okay according to the state.
    And then this young mother could give up custody of her children to her parents and they could raise them at state cost as dependents. Plus, the young mother could live for free at home and if she gets a cheap job to pay for food/clothing/bus pass - she could have her children raised by the state - all without never having to be sterilized.
    Then the children become her family's issue and not the state or the taxpayer since she has not opened her own claim. Again, long-term birth control, NOT sterilization. There is a BIG difference there.


    Plus, the government will have to pay for tens of millions of sterilizations for eligible men and women (these people are broke - they cannot afford it). Which could run into 10's of billions of dollars.
    OMG!

    And these are just loopholes I have thoughts off of the top of my head. I guarantee the masses will think of dozens more. I guarantee you, it will end up costing the government more money then it pays now.
    These same loop holes exist NOW.

    Plus, this sterilization program will incite gigantic resentment amongst the poor - who will gladly band together to do whatever they have to to fleece the system.
    If you're talking about sterilization, then you are not addressing me. Like I've said about a billion times I'm talking about LONG-TERM BIRTH CONTROL.

    The more government tries to clamp dow on people - the more it unites the people in a common cause against the government.
    This is just silliness. Having a person who cannot afford to have children use birth control is just plain old common sense. You must know this.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    nothing wrong with it if you want to rip up the constitution and step all over peoples rights, freedoms and liberties LOL

    you cant fore medicine and medical procedures on people thats insane
    Sorry, but there is nothing in the Constitution about collecting taxpayer monies to support your family.

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