View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
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    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #591
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    See post #8.
    yeah im not on board with that.

    The long term BC(depending on how long of a term) would be ok but not the sterilization. Im shocked its legal and wont be surprised if its not for long.
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  2. #592
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    You're goddamm right I am going to be talking about my family, my friends, my colleagues, the people I work for and try to help. You're so sick and twisted from reality that you don't want an actual human face to be put on public policy. This affects real people, and it doesn't affect them in small ways, it affects them as human beings. You still insist on insulting those people and yet announce your innocence in the process. Don't you dare tell me to be detached from such arguments. As the disabled, we've earned the right to protest this evil policy inflicted upon us for generations. The other group victims of sterilization practices of the 20th century have earned the right to speak out. It's such a black mark upon society that we are trying to figure out how to properly apologize for it, and you insist on going forward with bringing it back.
    If you're too angry to be able to discuss the topic, then there's little point in continuing to try to.

    I do put a human face on this discussion, by the way, which is the face that others keep ignoring:


  3. #593
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    If you're too angry to be able to discuss the topic, then there's little point in continuing to try to.

    I do put a human face on this discussion, by the way, which is the face that others keep ignoring:


    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #594
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Funny how solipsism comes through in their thoughts, isn't it? So long as it is their smaller rights, then it must be fought tooth and nail, but someone else's larger, more important rights, mankind ought to become monsters. You'll never see a group more dedicated to fight against anti-piracy efforts, gun control, or progressive taxation, but you can't bet that they will think you should be permitted to ever have children. Thankfully, there are at least some who have participated that had seen through the evil this would unleash.
    I think he admitted his stance is not a libertarian stance.

  5. #595
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I'm just trying to follow your insinuation that addicts can't make this decision to its logical conclusion. Trying to figure out what your opinion really is of the capacity of addicts to make their own adult decisions...



    Still seeking clarity, as this brings up an interesting legal issue about who calls the shots for these people (themselves, or someone else who's not under the influence).



    I have almost no faith that those in government or other positions of immense power would actually want the poorest 50% of the country to end the cycle they're in. Our economy has become quite accustomed to the zero-savings, consumer-driven and debt-driven cycle of most people spending money faster than they make it. That's what all our policies, monetary, fiscal and otherwise are trying to accomplish: the whole country putting itself into debt and spending money faster than they can find it. It is not just because people are opposed to reproductive control measures that the government would never go there. Having children has a calming effect on otherwise unpredictable and destructive people. Some people unfortunately need to have children to halt their path toward self-destruction. Many people do fall in line somewhat and become obedient, humble citizens just wanting a bit of food when they have a family. Government and other powerful institutions like these types of desperate people very much.

    Ending the cycle of intergenerational poverty and dependence on the state would cause major social, political and economic disruption, so government would never even go there. I realize this doesn't completely answer your challenge about the invasive nature of the welfare-for-sterilization concept, but I have argued my position nonetheless because my belief system de-prioritizes reproductive rights relative to fetal/babies' rights, especially in the most severe cases such as drug dependence.
    I don't know what you want from me on this. You know the answer. They call the shots. I called the practice of paying desperate people for their fertility immoral, not illegal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gina
    That's the premise we have been given. The taxpayer via the government has the right to impose a permanent surgical penalty on a woman in return for welfare.
    That is the quoted text from which this stemmed. Your belief system does not answer that question/challenge.

    We can leave it at that.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    What if a teenager turns 18 while her parents/guardian are on welfare...does he/she have to get sterilized?
    Does she have a child of her own and collecting services for herself and her child? If not, then no. BTW, I'm talking about long-term BC now because sterilization is too permanent.

    And if so - what if a daughter moves out and then moves back in with her parents who is on welfare? Does she have to be sterilized before she sets foot in the door? Can she stay the weekend? A week? A month?
    Again, this is about the person who has an open claim receiving welfare benefits with at least one child. The child of someone collecting would not count because it is not "her" claim.

    How long can the offspring visit their welfare parent before the state demands they become sterilized?



    And if there is a time limit - what is to stop the child from living with the parents until the limit is reached, move out and then move back again to start the time limit all over again? This could conceivably go on for years.
    Again, refer to above. The long-term BC would only apply to the person who is claiming benefits for themselves and their child/children.


    You could have a deal between two families. The offspring live with their parents until the time limit is up - then the families switch children during the waiting period. And then they switch back and start the time limit all over again.
    Lol! What?

    And how are you going to have the government check the millions of families to make sure they are complying with the time limits?
    it will cost tens of millions of dollars to watch over ALL these families.
    Not sure what you mean by "time limits." Regular visits to a physician to ensure compliance with long-term BC, which anyone on birth control is supposed to do anyway.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I don't know what you want from me on this. You know the answer. They call the shots. I called the practice of paying desperate people for their fertility immoral, not illegal.
    What's immoral is continuing to have children that you cannot afford to support and to rely on others (or FORCE others and strangers) to support your family. Not only is it immoral to do that to other people, but it is immoral to do it to your own family too. It is absolutely disgusting behavior.

  8. #598
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    [QUOTE=ChrisL;1061510861]

    Does she have a child of her own and collecting services for herself and her child? If not, then no. BTW, I'm talking about long-term BC now because sterilization is too permanent.



    Again, this is about the person who has an open claim receiving welfare benefits with at least one child. The child of someone collecting would not count because it is not "her" claim.








    Again, refer to above. The long-term BC would only apply to the person who is claiming benefits for themselves and their child/children.




    Lol! What?



    Not sure what you mean by "time limits." Regular visits to a physician to ensure compliance with long-term BC, which anyone on birth control is supposed to do anyway.
    Theres a place that does something like this its called China.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What's immoral is continuing to have children that you cannot afford to support and to rely on others (or FORCE others and strangers) to support your family. Not only is it immoral to do that to other people, but it is immoral to do it to your own family too. It is absolutely disgusting behavior.
    SO then your solution is to impose a authoritarian Government?

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    SO then your solution is to impose a authoritarian Government?
    It's NOT authoritarian to expect people to practice common sense and use birth control when they cannot afford to support the children that they already have, or themselves for that matter. It is simply common sense to prevent people who cannot support their own from having anymore until they CAN support them. It is just CRAZY for the state to provide for someone and to allow them to continue to have children.

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