View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
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    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    No. It's not. The options are simple: get support for your children/ don't have more that you can afford. I think the mentality people have these days is down right dangerous: it's this "something for nothing attitude." No one is entitled to anything. Life doesn't guarantee that people will be fed and clothed, and yet in 21st century America, even the fattest, sickest, most unhealthy people among us are guaranteed not only the essentials, but also comforts and luxuries. I might be able to go along with that much, but this mentality that people should not only get seemingly infinite entitlements, but also be free to birth more children for society to support is ridiculous.

    Putting a cap on someone's baby maker in exchange for doing what THEY SHOULD be doing is reasonable. If those same people were born before LBJ and his fellow Fabian socialites turned America into an idealistic mecca of government tit suckers, their children would have likely died at birth. Most of these wimmin don't want their boobs to sag from breastfeeding afterall.

    All I advocate is at least some level of personal responsibility. And people think it's coercion.
    Plain and simple, the government doesn't have a right, should never have the right, to force medical procedure on us, no matter how upset you are about welfare.

    That social experimentation was tried, abused and ended.

    What are we doing now to prevent unplanned pregnancy? Cutting services and closing Planned Parenthood. If one is serious about reducing unplanned births, then one should be a strong advocate of the government increasing these services and making them available a low cost or free as possible. When offered, many low income women in a study presented in 2012, took the long term options given them.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I was talking about coercion. If attaching a contingency to a benefit is coercion, then just ending the program is... what? Theft? A federal benefit never inherently the rightful property of the beneficiary. Any benefit program could end, the same way any government job could be eliminated.



    Apparently not just from somewhere, but specifically from a federal benefit program... or else they'll starve to death in the streets.
    Alright then. How many do you think would "choose" sterilization as opposed to no welfare?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    What are we doing now to prevent unplanned pregnancy? Cutting services and closing Planned Parenthood. If one is serious about reducing unplanned births, then one should be a strong advocate of the government increasing these services and making them available a low cost or free as possible. When offered, many low income women in a study presented in 2012, took the long term options given them.
    Compared to so many of the things the federal government is doing, prevention of unwanted and unplanned pregnancy should be among the last to go. That's my opinion, and it may not resonate as strongly with other libertarians, but I agree with you on this at least, Gina, for the most part.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    [QUOTE=Neomalthusian;1061507135]I was talking about coercion. If attaching a contingency to a benefit is coercion, then just ending the program is... what? Theft? A federal benefit never inherently the rightful property of the beneficiary. Any benefit program could end, the same way any government job could be eliminated.[/qote}

    I was not using coerce or coercion in a legal sense either:

    Definition of COERCE
    1
    : to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious — W. R. Inge>
    2
    : to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>
    3
    : to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>
    — co·erc·ible adjective
    A contingency or condition rises to coercion when not accepting it has a dire consequence.

    That consequence, is unconscionable, not theft.

    Apparently not just from somewhere, but specifically from a federal benefit program... or else they'll starve to death in the streets.
    Children are fed using food stamps and welfare. End it, and the won't be fed enough.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Alright then. How many do you think would "choose" sterilization as opposed to no welfare?
    Hard to say for sure, but I think many would, ultimately. Recipients of the charity I shared a link to in post #8 of this thread have chosen sterilization not even in exchange for ongoing welfare, but for a mere few hundred dollars.

    Project Prevention

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Recipients of the charity I shared a link to in post #8 of this thread have chosen sterilization not even in exchange for ongoing welfare, but for a mere few hundred dollars.

    Project Prevention
    Doesn't that suggest 1) that without aid, they would be that desperate 2) Indict the practice of sterility as punishment for being in the position to begin with.

    I'm glad you linked to that, seeing as how project prevention is a neo-eugenicist front.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Doesn't that suggest 1) that without aid, they would be that desperate
    They might be desperate even with the aid. All the more reason not to bring more children into the world...

    2) Indict the practice of sterility as punishment for being in the position to begin with.
    If you perceive the act of voluntary sterilization to be self-punishment, that's your opinion. Others might see it as an opportunity to have sex without risk of pregnancy for the rest of their lives, which could be liberating. And if doing so also happened to open up other opportunities, I think some would see it as a reward or blessing.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    They might be desperate even with the aid. All the more reason not to bring more children into the world...



    If you perceive the act of voluntary sterilization to be self-punishment, that's your opinion. Others might see it as an opportunity to have sex without risk of pregnancy for the rest of their lives, which could be liberating. And if doing so also happened to open up other opportunities, I think some would see it as a reward or blessing.
    All I see here is eugenicist trash. If it was so "liberating" why the cloak and dagger approach? Why is it targeting only the lower socio-economic population?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    All I see here is eugenicist trash. If it was so "liberating" why the cloak and dagger approach? Why is it targeting only the lower socio-economic population?
    Because they're least likely to have the means to care for children. Children fundamentally have rights to all their basic needs being met by the guardian(s). Therefore I think continuing to shun all efforts to cut back on reproduction among those who cannot meet those basic needs is not only foolish, but passively neglectful/abusive on society's part.

    You can call it "eugenicist trash" all you want, it's a person's own choice to become sterilized, and Project Prevention is one example of it being encouraged already (albeit privately). I just happen to think it's a good enough idea that we should institute the practice more broadly.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Because they're least likely to have the means to care for children. Children fundamentally have rights to all their basic needs being met by the guardian(s). Therefore I think continuing to shun all efforts to cut back on reproduction among those who cannot meet those basic needs is not only foolish, but passively neglectful/abusive on society's part.

    You can call it "eugenicist trash" all you want, it's a person's own choice to become sterilized, and Project Prevention is one example of it being encouraged already (albeit privately). I just happen to think it's a good enough idea that we should institute the practice more broadly.
    A person impaired by a drug habit.

    The woman who runs that "charity" doesn't even care if they use the $300 on drugs. To my mind, that's exploiting a debilitated person.

    I sincerely hope, the practice dies.

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