View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
  • No

    85 69.67%
  • Undecided

    6 4.92%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #461
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    My answer implied that it was not much of a choice at all. That should have been obvious.
    You didn't answer; you asked questions. If one chooses to have children he/she cannot afford to raise, why should others be expected to provide the means to do so?
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    [QUOTE=Gina;1061505349]
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post

    But that happened in our past Chris. People deemed unfit were forcibly sterilized.


    Yes, that's Wiki, but it's an overview.

    Money is exactly why we are discussing this topic. Better reproductive rights be sacrificed than the poster's money.

    Yes, we are just, but ideas find their way into policy and as you can see from the quote, we've been down that road and it's frightening to think some people wouldn't mind going there again. The justifications are scary all the same.
    Like I asked FT, how do you feel about long-term birth control? It's not sterilization, and one can become pregnant after the BC method is discontinued.

  3. #463
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I understand your concern, and this is a really well-written response, one of the best reasons to be against sterilization yet. I am going to assume that this is what you are referring to?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/us...pagewanted=all

    The thing is though, this particular program was aimed not only at those collecting social services but those who were disabled or considered "slow" mentally. The plan, as I stated would not include those people, just those who were currently receiving social services with more than one child.

    I do agree though that sometimes there would be problems with defining just who should have the procedure, and some people who really shouldn't have the procedure might end up being sterilized.

    I also wanted to bring up the long-term birth control options.

    Long-Term Birth Control: New Implants and Patches

    These are also a good idea, and are not permanent (except for the last one).

    I was also surprised that no one mentioned the reversal success rates for sterilization. That would be one angle to attack it. Some tubal ligations can be reversed quite successfully, but others not so much as noted below.

    Pregnancy Success Rates After Reversal

    If the remaining fallopian tubes are healthy, and you and your partner do not have any other infertility issues, you have a good chance of becoming pregnant after tubal reversal.

    However, not every woman is able to become pregnant after tubal reversal. Age plays an important role in the ability to become pregnant after tubal reversal. Older women are much less likely than younger woman to become pregnant after this procedure. In general, pregnancy success rates range from 40% to 85%. When pregnancy does occur, it usually occurs within the first year. Success depends on several things, including:

    Your age
    Type of tubal ligation procedure you had
    Length of the remaining fallopian tubes, and whether they still work properly
    Amount of scar tissue in your pelvic area
    Results of your partner's sperm count and other fertility tests
    Surgeon's skill

    So I'm curious as to how you would feel about a long-term birth control option?
    1) Think about the population receiving the services. It's the same population.
    2) I would love to see the reaction from women's groups on that laundry list. Frankly, I am against that as well.
    3) Reversal rates? It doesn't bother you enough that you consider sterilization a public policy measure for millions of Americans? And those that cannot be reversed-how is that justified?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    You didn't answer; you asked questions. If one chooses to have children he/she cannot afford to raise, why should others be expected to provide the means to do so?
    You have no dominion over their body. That is my response.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    You have no dominion over their body. That is my response.
    Did I ask for any? No, I did not...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Did I ask for any? No, I did not...
    By way of public policy, yes, you did.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    By way of public policy, yes, you did.
    What public policy did I mention? You're getting confused...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    What public policy did I mention? You're getting confused...
    Then don't ask a question in post #455 if you aren't ready to grasp that that is public policy.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    1) Think about the population receiving the services. It's the same population.
    2) I would love to see the reaction from women's groups on that laundry list. Frankly, I am against that as well.
    3) Reversal rates? It doesn't bother you enough that you consider sterilization a public policy measure for millions of Americans? And those that cannot be reversed-how is that justified?
    1. Not always. There are plenty of able-bodied healthy people on welfare and plenty of disabled people who work. Most disabled people are collecting Social Security Disability benefits anyhow; not welfare. I probably should have specified that. Disabled people who cannot work through no fault of their own would not be included of course.
    2. You're against long-term birth control? Why is that. I would be interested in an explanation as to why if you wouldn't mind.
    3. I'm not "justifying" anything here, just debating it from the "pro" position. At first I didn't think it was such a bad idea and wanted to hear other people's input; now I don't think sterilization is the right way to go, but I am more thinking of the long-term BC option.

  10. #470
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    [QUOTE=ChrisL;1061506859]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post

    Like I asked FT, how do you feel about long-term birth control? It's not sterilization, and one can become pregnant after the BC method is discontinued.
    I'm absolutely fine with long term BC. Minnie and I were discussing it earlier this morning. She posted a study released this year. The findings were very encouraging. When offered for free or low cost, many women chose the long term methods. On a broad scale, such a program could make a good dent in unplanned births, which cost the country $11 billion a year, the latest number I've seen.

    I think the government absorbing the higher costs of IUD's and implants would be well worth it.

    EDIT: But not in exchange for benefits.
    Last edited by Gina; 02-25-13 at 06:53 PM.

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