View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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    31 25.41%
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    85 69.67%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Okay. Whom do you trust to decide who should be sterilized and who shouldn't? Do you trust that such a program, once instituted, would be limited to strictly income-based determination?
    I don't but somehow those advocating for sterilization for benefits or even worse, forced sterilization, don't see the danger to their own rights.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I don't but somehow those advocating for sterilization for benefits or even worse, forced sterilization, don't see the danger to their own rights.
    Such as?

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Okay. Whom do you trust to decide who should be sterilized and who shouldn't? Do you trust that such a program, once instituted, would be limited to strictly income-based determination?
    Like I said, it would be limited to those collecting welfare who are collecting benefits for more than one child. So I guess it would be those "number cruncher" people that Neo was talking about earlier.

    Honestly though, I haven't delved that far into it. I just thought it was an interesting debate topic, as to why people would be for and against it.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Like I said, it would be limited to those collecting welfare who are collecting benefits for more than one child. So I guess it would be those "number cruncher" people that Neo was talking about earlier.

    Honestly though, I haven't delved that far into it. I just thought it was an interesting debate topic, as to why people would be for and against it.
    Well, it would be nice to have a negative go with a positive. Positive = free taxpayer money, negative = elimination of the chance that you can have a child that will be used to get even more taxpayer money.

    Unless people know that there are consequences to incorrect behavior and actions, they'll keep doing it.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Such as?
    As Viktyr said,

    Do you trust that such a program, once instituted, would be limited to strictly income-based determination?
    It was suggested earlier in the thread that a DNA database could be set up. Information collected from DNA analysis not income based.

    The applications are infinite when one group feels they have the right to limit the rights of others, not in their group. There is always the chance then, that one could fall outside the circle of those making the decisions.

    The ideas being espoused in this thread are quite frightening, Chris.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    No, but I will agree unfortunately that a very high % of children are born to incompetent parents, usually teenagers/young adults that aren't married.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Honestly though, I haven't delved that far into it. I just thought it was an interesting debate topic, as to why people would be for and against it.
    I'm not judging. I'm just offering the counter-argument you asked for. Naked self-interest often serves nicely where morality fails.

    I would actually support long-term temporary birth control being mandatory for people receiving benefits and free voluntary sterilization for people with inheritable defects or whom cannot raise children. It's just that such measures would be the limit-- the absolute furthest limit-- of negative eugenics programs I could support in good conscience. Anything else would be an infringement of peoples' inherent reproductive rights, which I would have to oppose as forcefully as I would oppose restrictions on abortion or birth control.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    I'm not judging. I'm just offering the counter-argument you asked for. Naked self-interest often serves nicely where morality fails.

    I would actually support long-term temporary birth control being mandatory for people receiving benefits and free voluntary sterilization for people with inheritable defects or whom cannot raise children. It's just that such measures would be the limit-- the absolute furthest limit-- of negative eugenics programs I could support in good conscience. Anything else would be an infringement of peoples' inherent reproductive rights, which I would have to oppose as forcefully as I would oppose restrictions on abortion or birth control.
    As long as the temporary birth control didn't have side effects, I think this sounds reasonable.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    I'm not judging. I'm just offering the counter-argument you asked for. Naked self-interest often serves nicely where morality fails.

    I would actually support long-term temporary birth control being mandatory for people receiving benefits and free voluntary sterilization for people with inheritable defects or whom cannot raise children. It's just that such measures would be the limit-- the absolute furthest limit-- of negative eugenics programs I could support in good conscience. Anything else would be an infringement of peoples' inherent reproductive rights, which I would have to oppose as forcefully as I would oppose restrictions on abortion or birth control.
    I undedrstand yopur point.

    But what happens to those women that refuse to voluntarily sterilize themselves but do not (whether out of laziness, stupidiy or whatever reason) make enough money to adequately feed/cloth/house themselves and their children?
    Do they starve while living on the streets? Are their children forced to live in extreme poverty because their parents are pathetic and the government will not help without conditions being met?

    Imo, you cannot force people to have to do something to get the basic necessities of life.

    Emergency food/shelter/medical/dental should be for everybody - no strings attached.

    And I emphasize the word 'emergency' - as in government run 'flop houses' with 'soup kitchens' with attached medical/dental clinics.
    Last edited by DA60; 02-25-13 at 03:52 AM.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    But what happens to those women that refuse to voluntarily sterilize themselves but do not (whether out of laziness, stupidiy or whatever reason) make enough money to adequately feed/cloth/house themselves and their children?
    Do they starve while living on the streets? Are their children forced to live in extreme poverty because their parents are pathetic and the government will not help without conditions being met?
    That's really their own fault, now isn't it? If they won't accept the conditions of government aid, they don't qualify for it. If they can't support the children they have because they won't comply with the aid requirements, then their children should be removed from their homes. I live in public housing. Quite a few of my rights, as a human being and an American citizen, are curtailed as a condition of my accepting public assistance-- you absolutely can force people to accept conditions for government aid.

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