View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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  • Yes

    31 25.41%
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    85 69.67%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #391
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Sorry, but no. Cherry-picking the semantics of three words... which could just as easily be interpreted opposite of what how you choose to interpret them... does not equate to disproval. Legal lessons of definition from Bill Clinton ("It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.") were ridiculed then, and are still ridiculous now. Taken overall, the points and citations stand.
    The definitions you posted did not demonstrate that benefit contingencies equal coercion. Further, my examples highlight the absurdity of calling voluntary agreements coercion just because the person doesn't really want to make the trade, but feels compelled to. I don't really want to go to work many days, compared to how much I'd like to stay home, but I'm compelled to go because I need the income. You didn't answer my questions. Is employment coercion, according to what you shared? What about workfare?

  2. #392
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    LOL it's your type of ideology which keeps the rest of us paying for other people's children.
    My type of ideology, eh? You haven't grasped anything I've said, have you? If you had, you would realize that I'm actually not that far off from you, but you... because I am not in strict lock-step with you... choose to see any deviation whatsoever as being diametrically opposed.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #393
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The definitions you posted did not demonstrate that benefit contingencies equal coercion. Further, my examples highlight the absurdity of calling voluntary agreements coercion just because the person doesn't really want to make the trade, but feels compelled to. I don't really want to go to work many days, compared to how much I'd like to stay home, but I'm compelled to go because I need the income. You didn't answer my questions. Is employment coercion, according to what you shared? What about workfare?
    Somehow, this concept is beyond comprehension for some people.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    My type of ideology, eh? You haven't grasped anything I've said, have you? If you had, you would realize that I'm actually not that far off from you, but you... because I am not in strict lock-step with you... choose to see any deviation whatsoever as being diametrically opposed.
    You argue that it's coercion and it's not.

    It's really that simple.

  4. #394
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Somehow, this concept is beyond comprehension for some people.



    You argue that it's coercion and it's not.

    It's really that simple.
    You're wrong, but you seem to enjoy it, so I'll leave you to it.

    Nice dodge at avoiding my point that... overall, not just on the definition of 'coerce'... we are not that far off. Well, either consciously avoiding it or unable to understand it. Whichever.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    I don't think that you should have to get a license to have children, but I do think that taking someone's ability to have children away should be a valid option if they have proven themselves unable to take care of the children they have.
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The definitions you posted did not demonstrate that benefit contingencies equal coercion. Further, my examples highlight the absurdity of calling voluntary agreements coercion just because the person doesn't really want to make the trade, but feels compelled to. I don't really want to go to work many days, compared to how much I'd like to stay home, but I'm compelled to go because I need the income. You didn't answer my questions. Is employment coercion, according to what you shared? What about workfare?
    It is coercion. Your job sets the number of hours you work and the general labor you will put forth, but doesnt regulate you outside of your cubicle or office. There is already a stipulation on the TANF program that any child born during the use of TANF is ineligible for cash and child care assistance benefits for life. The foodstamps and Medicaid put a rediculously lenient number of children before benefits quit increasing, capping at 10 children. Its funny that that number is also where several states end child support requirements including my own NV. Basically telling man to go knock up 10 girls or more to be free from financial responsibility. Putting in the sterilization is overstepping it. Has your job ever made you undergo a surgical procedure? Cash recipients have to work under TANF for benefits and have tp comply wirth a ruleset that even longstanding case managers are often confussed by. Its coercion and gender discrimination as this would likely be applied moreso to females than their male counterparts when often times the male counterparts are more the cause of poverty than the women. Its both coercion and discrimination but also dangerous. Should mommy die during the tubal ligation or afterwards due to infection where would the kids go? Foster care to be drugged by bigPharma, beaten by Joe.Blow and his wife who care about the cash and free housecleaners more than the childs welfare, and be cast aside by the already overburdened social workers? Because that would be the better option when compared to a loving single mother or two parents with financial insecurities. Sterilization is a bad idea no matter which way ya spin.it.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    There are two factors here. First, I think that parents ought to know what the hell they're getting into and what is expected of them, so requiring licensing or classes or something isn't a bad idea. However, let's be realistic, there's no reasonable way to enforce such a thing, nobody has to ask permission to breed and you really can't stop them. That does mean that a lot of unfit and unqualified people will end up breeding because biology permits it, unfortunately.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #398
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelsea View Post
    I see alot more potential problems than solutions here. The overwhelming numbers in which immigrants will overtake citizens for one. Religious debates by Catholics, Muslims, and Evangelicals among others. The at home births and hiding of children from the government as has happened in other countries with such laws. Lawsuits for wrongful death (youre putting millions of babies under a surgical procedure you're bound to have deaths). Has any research taken place on the liklihood of reversal/ damage to the reproductive abilities of males whove had this procedure before a certain age? Its not feasable and even if it didnt break several natural laws and go against several constitutional rights would you be paying for it? How about the funerals of the boys who dont make it? The wrongful death suits? The suits later on when these boys prove capable fathers but the reversal doesnt work?

    I see alot more problprobl
    I totally agree. But that brings us back to the stark reality... we are all powerless over other people. People do what they do. Evolution will have to work these things out.

    Absurd as my suggestion is...it's no more absurd than so many believing that if there is enough consequences inflicted on people...for not behaving in a certain way...eventually they'll stop doing what they do.

    But we know that's not true. There's too many examples to the contrary. There are 7 billion people on the planet, who are...adapting to various shifts in their environments. Some environments are more civilized than others. But yet inside the most civilized of societies lurks some very uncivilized folks.

    It looks like to me that one person's cure for our social ills ...is the creation of a disease for others in a same respective society.

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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    This government intrusion is unconstitutional and violates all natural law...

  10. #400
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, I'm basically playing devil's advocate. I don't necessarily agree with mandatory sterilization. I would like to hear some GOOD reasons why we shouldn't do it though.
    Okay. Whom do you trust to decide who should be sterilized and who shouldn't? Do you trust that such a program, once instituted, would be limited to strictly income-based determination?

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