View Poll Results: A license to have children?

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    85 69.67%
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Thread: A license to have children [W:81]

  1. #371
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Look, you keep doing the "what are you talking about" thing, so I'm just gonna make this simple one more time:

    1. An animal DOES NOT consciously decide to be your "companion" based on anything about you whatsoever. Pretending one is special because an animal thinks so is pathetic.

    2. Imaginary friends are counter-productive to the development of normal social interaction.

    3. An obligation to animals, animal rights or any other incarnation of non-anthropocentrism is not an excuse or reason to own an animal. Blaming the ownership (or, enslavement) of an animal on a need to help animals is a false claim. Many have such an obligation and do not own pets.

  2. #372
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    It would be voluntary. If they want a check, get sterilized. That is not coercion. They don't HAVE TO take the check.
    That is coercion. Needy people trading their fertility for food is coercive.

  3. #373
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Look, you keep doing the "what are you talking about" thing, so I'm just gonna make this simple one more time:

    1. An animal DOES NOT consciously decide to be your "companion" based on anything about you whatsoever. Pretending one is special because an animal thinks so is pathetic.
    Where did I say it's a "decision?" Hell, I don't even think humans usually decide that, in most cases.

    2. Imaginary friends are counter-productive to the development of normal social interaction.
    How are animals imaginary? And please provide refutation to the proven fact that many animals -- including cats and dogs -- do have feelings.

    3. An obligation to animals, animal rights or any other incarnation of non-anthropocentrism is not an excuse or reason to own an animal. Blaiming the ownership of an animal on a need to help animals is a false claim. Many have such an obligation and do not own pets.
    Where have I claimed I have a cat because of an obligation to help animals? Seriously, whose posts are you reading? They obviously aren't mine.

    I notice you don't address any of the actual arguments I bring up. You simply keep repeating the same meaningless statements.

  4. #374
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    That is coercion. Needy people trading their fertility for food is coercive.
    It's not coercion. It does not fit with the legal definition, as there is no use of force or threats. It is simply a contingency of the benefit program.

  5. #375
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    How are animals imaginary?

    Your confusion is simply too much for me. I believe I've been clear enough, logical enough and plain enough in my presentation of the facts. If one cannot follow what I have presented and, for some reason, it is beyond grasp, then there's not much more I can do.

    "Animals are imaginary"? hahaha wtf Talk about lost without hope. I get the feeling I've been here before, with you.

    Good day.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 02-24-13 at 03:31 PM.

  6. #376
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No way. Educational programs do almost nothing to reduce social programs like this, because the people who need it most are the people who don't care about it, take it seriously or pursue it. I love education, but that's because I want to learn things and so I pursue education and information.

    The thing about child licenses is NOT that they would be ineffective, it's that they would be controversial/unethical/immoral/unconstitutional, or so many would feel.

    Personally though, I think children's rights not to be raised in pathetically substandard environments should supersede people's reproductive rights. The primary challenges are to 1) defeat people's emotional objections to this idea, and 2) regulate it cost-effectively.

    Some people are serious about it and trying to do something about it. Exhibit A: Sterilize for Cash: Paying Drug Addicts to Not Have Kids - TIME
    We couldn't even effectively ban alcohol or drugs in this country. Trying to regulate sexual activity is like a dream within a dream. Overwhelming number of logistical challenges, all of which have terrible synergy with our culture.

    For example, even if you could make society stomach it (impossible), then the very first abuse committed by the bureaucracy would send people bouncing off the walls with protests or resistance of all sorts.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 02-24-13 at 03:45 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  7. #377
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Your confusion is simply too much for me. I believe I've been clear enough, logical enough and plain enough in my presentation of the facts. If one cannot follow what I have presented and, for some reason, it is beyond grasp, then there's not much more I can do.

    "Animals are imaginary"? hahaha wtf Talk about lost without hope. I get the feeling I've been here before, with you.

    Good day.
    Given that you have simply made up arguments that no one has ever made, no, you are not in the least bit clear.

    What's with your animals kick today?

  8. #378
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    We couldn't even effectively ban alcohol or drugs in this country. Trying to regulate sexual activity is like a dream within a dream. Overwhelming number of logistical challenges, all of which have terrible synergy with our culture.
    Who said that (the bold)?

  9. #379
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Given that you have simply made up arguments that no one has ever made, no, you are not in the least bit clear.
    I think you misunderstand and fail to grasp my arguments, as they are NOT based on yours but facts.

    What's with your animals kick today?
    What? I'm on an "animals kick" everyday - I'm vegan ~15 years.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 02-24-13 at 04:06 PM.

  10. #380
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    Re: A license to have children [W:81]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    It would be voluntary. If they want a check, get sterilized. That is not coercion. They don't HAVE TO take the check.
    Your ideology blinds you. Here, let me help you out...

    Coerce - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    co·ercedco·erc·ing
    Definition of COERCE
    1: to restrain or dominate by force <religion in the past has tried to coerce the irreligious — W. R. Inge>
    2: to compel to an act or choice <was coerced into agreeing>
    3: to achieve by force or threat <coerce compliance>
    — co·erc·ible adjective
    Examples of COERCE
    A confession was coerced from the suspect by police.
    <was coerced into signing the document>

    -and-

    Coercion (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

    2.4 Coercive Offers?

    While the dominant strand in recent theory has associated coercion with threats, and denied that offers can be used to coerce, this sharp differentiation of these two sorts of proposals has come in for some criticism. The parallel structure of conditional threats and conditional offers has led some to deny that there is a deep distinction to be made between them. Others have focused on the role of both in the broader political and economic context, and found that these broader conditions make coercive offers a live possibility. Dealings in capitalist markets are often highly exploitative; governments often condition the provision of ordinary benefits on the satisfaction of unrelated demands (such as making highway funding conditional on states' passing particular laws). Given the potency such offers possess, one might suspect that there are many offers that one cannot reasonably refuse, possibly reflecting great imbalances in power or prior historical injustices between the bargaining parties. (See, for instance, O'Neill 1991; and Berman 2001.)

    -and-

    What is COERCION? definition of COERCION (Black's Law Dictionary)

    What is COERCION?

    Compulsion; force; duress. It may be either actual, (direct or positive.) where physical force Is put upon a man to compel him to do an act against his will, or implied, (legal or constructive.) where the relation of the parties is such that one is under subjection to the other, and is thereby constrained to do what his free will would refuse. State v. Darlington, 153 Ind. 1, 53 N. E. 025; Cliappell v. Trent, 00 Va. S49, 19 S. E. 314; Radicli v. Ilutohins, 95 U. S. 213, 24 L. Ed. 409; Peyser v. New York, 70 N. Y. 497. 20 Am. Rep. G24; State v. Boyle, 13 R. I. 53S.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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